Lancashire Records Office.

[dobfarm]

Hi Romilly,

Seems one mixed up post tread line ?Like market day in Bolton, Always were a noisey lot overside of pennines. Somat to do with romantic red roses.


 But I found this but its 4 years earlier.

Farnsworth is north west Manchester


Baptisms: 29 Apr 1855 St John the Evangelist, Farnworth With Kearsley, Lancashire, England
William James Wilson - Son of James Wilson & Mary
    Abode: Farnworth
    Occupation: Joiner
    Baptised by: William Haslam
    Register: Baptisms 1852 - 1864, Page 59, Entry 465
    Source: LDS Film 1538438

Yorkie Dobby

[dobfarm]

Hi Romilly again

 this is wrong way round first names but fits dates

James William Wilson
Year of Registration: 1859 
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 
District: Manchester (1837-1924) 
County: Lancashire 
Volume: 8d 

[Romilly]

Hi Yorkie Dobby,

And Many Thanks for looking for my missing Grandfather for me

I hadn't come across the first one that you found before...I will see if I can find him & family on the Censuses. (Would a Joiner's trade link to House Painting? My Grandfather is a 'House Painter & Decorator' on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses).

The second one, - with the names transposed, I have looked at before...but had discounted after following his family on the Censuses. (I think that he turns up married to someone other than my Grandmother, Margaret Rees). However, I will go through my notes again & re-check.

My stumbling block has been that on his wedding to my Grandmother in Swansea in June 1893, (when he's 32yrs) he gives his father's name as 'William Wilson, deceased, Occupation Mason'. And so I've been looking for a William James, with a father of that description...

I realise of course that he might not have existed, - or might not have been married to William James's mother!!

Thanks Again for looking, - I really appreciate the help.
Cheers, Romilly.

[dobfarm]

Hi Romilly,


WILLIAM DAD OCCUPATION MASON is your hard proven fact to work from  YARDSTICK DATUM LINE UP/DOWN to work FROM or back.

There are a few possibilities? I never found my grandfathers birth certificate born 1867 as we thought Derbyshire where he had lived and by accident found him in the IGI lds bapt in Wales (Not WALES COUNTRY) village Yorkshire 3 miles into Yorkshire from his residence village in Derbyshire.

Your Marriage in Swansea 1893 of William James father William of Manchester? Residence or Birth

Qu? Was Manchester William James parish of residence Ie  Where he lived 3 weeks before the marriage or his place of birth.

Why and when did William James moved to Swansea. or Did they lived in Manchester and only they married in Swansea as the brides parish-meaning she had moved to Manchester and met William.

There are  5 possibles the marriage certificate- Parish church marriage register-Bishops transciption copy of - Licence by allegation bond marrage.and Banns records

Birth Certificate
Parish baptism
Bishops transcription copy

Censuses ages of William James need at least 2- 3 better

Age at death on Death certificate and Burial parish age and gravestone age or Memoral copy of grave stone called MI's or Dedications

If he was the first sibling of William Wilson father occ mason

Walking out together birth out of wedlock Bastardry order
Under his mothers maiden name.

Any 2 of the above confirms William James Wilson (or Mother maiden name and William father was another surname being NOT Wilson if born out of wedlock.) Existance and age.
.......................................................................

THE MAIN OBJECT Forget William James for now.

Your G?Granddad.   WILLIAM THE MASON
If like my granddad and no birth certifcate found  then concentrate on his father and by pass William James
Thus objective is William Wilson born/bapt in or round Mancester c1840 +/- 10 years.

Best of Luck!! hope it helps or any bit of helps above

Dobby

[Romilly]

Many Thanks Again Dobby,

You've given me lots of ideas to chew over...

William James Wilson & Margaret Rees were married at The Parish Church Swansea, after 'Banns'. I have a copy of the Marriage Cert, but I hadn't realized that I could persue the Banns as well...(Would I have to contact the Church to do this, - or are they now on-line somewhere?).

While Margaret Rees's family were long-term residents of Swansea, (I have found them back to 1790 via Parish Records, etc) I can find no trace of William James Wilson there before his marriage. (He doesn't seem to be on the 1891 Census for Wales). However, Swansea at the end of the 19th Century was somewhat of a 'boom town', & I imagine that a Journeyman House Painter, (as William James appears on the Birth Cert of his eldest son, William Havelock Wilson) would have travelled about for work?

It is also quite possible that as William James was born in (approx) 1860, - that his birth was never registered. (However, my Great Grandfather Evan Rees, born Swansea 1838, - was!).

I have tried looking for a William Wilson, (Mason) using the approx dates that you suggest, - but none seem to fit:-( I've also gone through the Censuses searching for William Wilsons/Masons, - but no joy...(Nothing obvious on the IGI either).

William James Wilson himself seems to have been fairly certain that his place of birth was Manchester, & I was also told this by my late Uncle & a cousin...

As I write, I'm looking at his entry for the 1911, in his own handwriting, giving pob as 'Manchester, Lancs.' I can't tell you how frustrating it is not to be able to find him with his family!! And how I wish that he had an unusual middle name, - especially in view of some of the middle names that he gave his sons

I will take up your suggestion Dobby, & put my Grandfather on the back boiler...while I trawl around again amongst the William Wilsons (no longer) of this world...

Thanks Again, - it is really helpful to look at it anew, through a fresh pair of eyes!
Cheers, Romilly.

[roger-syde]

Hi Dotty,

Thank you for your response about William Schofield. I knew I was asking for something nearly impossible so your reply was not a surprise. William & Mally were married on 4 Jan 1819 at St Chad's in Rochdale and had 4 children before William died in 1832. They were Mary (b 1823), William (b1826), Emmanuel (b1828) & Eliza (b1832). I have found the family in the 1841 and 1851 censuses but there were no grandparents living with them. I suspect this will not help but if you do find anything, I will be extremely grateful because I think I am coming to a complete standstill on my Schofield line.

Regards

Roger-Syde

[dobfarm]

Hi Romilly again.

These common surnames are hard to sort out. I was hoping a marriage by Licence as that has a little more info and names the  bestman sometimes and bonds man. Banns maybe on film or  fich at Swansea local studies library and contact them! they do mostly free look ups on known date for 1/2 an hour. some send copies of parish register original free or petty cash amount in cost.

Swansea had shipping and Manchester ship canal coaster cargo small ships-Painter Joiners etc. Food for thought!!

You need a marriage for William Wilson senior.
Trade Directories Manchester-oveerseers apprentice settlement- removal- examination-rate books collecting cash payment for the poor -paying out cash and so on.

William Senior may have left a WILL with sons on and William James Wilson.

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/

You are now heading for pre 1837 and there loads of info in archives also Newspapers Pre and post 1837

Your Best bet is Manchester Family history society and Join as member?? if you think you need access but a load is free as guests.(Phone-Write)

I'll send a Private mail on this! as there are reasons not too post on this website. Ie Bought info- private info- Copy rights ect. as real genealogy in archives.

Manchester/Bolton Archive will help and advice -Family history societies will help if you so elect at a little cost.

Dobby.

[Romilly]

Hi Dobby,

Many Thanks for all of the helpful advice. I have PM'd you

Cheers, Romilly.

[dobfarm]

1861 census
William Wilson
Age: 41 ... Born in: 1820
Relation to the head of household: Surgical Patient
Profession: Stone Mason ... Birth County: Yorkshire
Address:     Manchester                  Manchester ... Area: Manchester
County: Lancashire