Ellington's of Hull

[jillruss]

Good find, Yorkslass. I'll make a note of the ref and take a look when I go to the RO.

You never know, between us all, we might actually solve this one.

P.S. I still think Harriet is connected to Beverley.

Jill

[jillruss]

Well, I've been looking at these Ellingtons/Wilsons most of the morning at the Record Office, and I can truly say that I'm now even more confused than ever!! I know - not what you wanted to hear! 

Perhaps if I just list what I've found, someone with a clearer mind than mine is at the moment, might be able to decipher what's going on!!

1. The 28 Oct 1833 marriage at All Saints, Sculcoates of Thomas Wilson & Harriet Ellington has them both 'of this parish', he signed, she made her mark. Witnesses were William X Burton & John Bradbury.

2. Forget about the Harriet Ellington supposedly baptised in Preston 28 Oct 1802 (IGI). There is a Harriet baptised 26 Oct 1802 but she's the daughter of John & Mary ? (couldn't make out the surname but it definetly wasn't Ellington) and the entry above is for an Elizabeth d/o Davy Elletson. So, I think that's a transcription error on behalf of the IGI.

3. The Drypool baptism 29 Sep 1833 of Daniel Wilson has him s/o Thomas, a shoemaker & Harriet of this parish.

4. I couldn't find baptisms for either Elizabeth (c.1843) or Ellen (c.1844/5) in either Drypool or Sculcoates, but there is still that IGI for Elizabeth in Holy Trinity, Hull in 1842 d/o Thomas & Ann.

5. I also found the following baptisms which might fit in somewhere:-

May 2 1830 Drypool Elizabeth Wilson d/o Thomas, shoemaker & Harriet of parish of Sutton.

Dec 13 1835 Drypool Sarah Elizabeth Wilson d/o Thomas & Harriet, cordwainer of Sutton.

Oct 11 1840 Sculcoates All Saints Harriot Wilson d/o Thomas & Harriot, mariner.  Abode: Charles Sq.

6. I'm afraid I couldn't find a baptism for Harriet Ellington in either Beverley, Drypool or Sculcoates.

7. In Beverley St Mary's, there are the following baptisms for the 2 boys that Yorkslass found on the 1841 census living with a Harriett Wilson in Beverley:-

Jan 21 1831 Richard s/o John, a groom & Harriet Foreman of Wood Lane, Beverley.

Nov 13 1832 William bastard s/o Harriet Ellington, spinster, workhouse.

8. The Removal Order dated 30 Jan 1834 is to remove Thomas Wilson, cordwainer of Beverley and Harriet his wife from Beverley St Martin parish to Beverley St Mary parish. No children or other family are mentioned. It also states that, on 30 Jan, thay accept that the order cannot be carried out as Thomas Wilson, one of the paupers to be removed is unable to travel by reason of a serious illness. This obviously didn't last long, as the Order was carried out on Feb 3.

Because I was looking out for Harriets, one baptism that caught my attention was in Beverley St Mary Mar 21 1808 Harriet illegitimate d/o Ellen Norris. I made a note of it because Ellen was a name she (or at least who we think is her!) used to name one of her own children. What's more. I've looked on the IGI and this Ellen Mary Norris is the daughter of a Richard ( name of Harriet's son).

I'm probably jumping at straws here - and, anyway, I'm thwarted because I can't find a marriage on the IGI for this Ellen Norris. I was sort of hoping she might have married a Mr Ellington whose name Harriet then adopted!! I should know by now - it's never that easy!!

Please, someone see if they can make any sense of all of the above!!

Jill

[OLFEN1]

Hi Jill, my word you've been busy. It is so good of you to try to help me like this. You can begin to see why I have been tearing my hair out over.
To begin with, the John Bradbury you saw as witness on the marriage of Thomas & Harriet, was actually what they refer to as a professional witness at weddings. You will come across him quite alot at marriages.
I don't suppose it gave their ages on there did it.
About the Harriet at Preston, I was given this by someone from the Yorkshire family History society, I haven't seen it for myself. But I will take your word for it that it is not her.
As I told you before, my Thomas was a "Dock Laborer", so he could not be the Shoemaker "Cordwainer" in Beverley. So this wipes him off the map as well.
As I said before, I had come across at least 4 other Thomas's & Harriet's around this time.
I will keep it in mind with the Harriot Norris you mentioned as it is a coincidence that her mothers name was Ellen.
Another coincidence. My grt Grandfather Daniel married Charlotte Wilkinson 13-9-1857. St. Mary's. Their first daughter Harriet Wilson b. 5-5-1858. Hull. Married a Samuel Norrie 29-6-1880. St. Barnabus.
Strange how the two names are so alike. I know that the spelling of names was a bit hit and miss, as most people were  illiterate, so possibly didn't even know how to spell there own names. And most probably, strong accents, so that who ever was writing there names down, could have mispelt them.
What do you think.
Any way, as I say Jill, your a star for helping me.
Thanks alot
Ol

[jillruss]

You're welcome, Ol.

No ages on the marriage entry, unfortunately.

You may well be correct about the cordwainer/shoemaker Thomas Wilson not being yours, but I wouldn't dismiss him out of hand, as he'd obviously fallen on hard times and may well have had to become a labourer. But, yes, it's beginning to look as if they are 2 separate couples and that, for some reason, your couple didn't go in for baptising their children. I don't suppose there's any history of nonconformism in this part of your tree?

I'm hoping that Yorkslass, Jane and LKL will make something of what I've found, but - as you say - it's all very confusing!!

By the way, I've just double checked on the IGI and that Harriet baptism in Preston was for a Harriet Nettleton - I made a note that I thought it began with a 'N'!

Jill

[OLFEN1]

Hi Jill, Thanks for that. I have just looked at the marriage certificate for Thomas & Mary Banks again, and just realised, they were married 28-10-1849 at Salthouse Lane, Baptist Chapel. I was under the impression that it was Mary Banks who was the Baptist.
But not being able to find any baptism for the children of Thomas & Harriet, I am begining to believe that maybe Thomas & Harriet were baptist too.
As for Ellen, I have searched the 1851 Census for her with no luck, I wonder if she was adopted into the family, what do you think.
You won't believe this, but on another side of my family tree, I have a Maria Nettleton b 1795 kirkella. m. Robert Barker 2-3-1816 Kirkella.
Ol

[Yorkslass]

Hello all,

Well, Jill, you must have worked so hard at Beverley yesterday - and you have found all sorts of tantalising information - but nothing to pin these Wilsons and Ellingtons down, unfortunately.

I agree with you, there must have been two Thomas and Harriet Wilsons.

What is confusing me (apart from most of this!) is that Daniel Wilson was baptised before Ol's Thomas and Harriet married.  Wouldn't the child have been baptised under his single mother's name in that case? 

I was convinced that Thomas and Harriet were living in Beverley, but now I'm not so sure.  I've been right through the 1841 Beverley census, page by page (and some of the writing is not easy to read) - St. Mary and St. Martin.  Harriet Wilson is there of course with the two children, Richard and William, and there are a lot of Thomas Wilsons of the right age, especially in the Newbegin area, but just nothing to link any of the Thomas's with Harriet.

I've also searched for ages for Elizabeth and Sarah Elizabeth, children of the Sutton Thomas and Harriet Wilson, and come up with nothing.

So we come back to the Hull census.  Again, I've been through the Little Queen Street/Paragon Street/Chariot Street area of Myton, page by page, but nothing.  I really think some of those little streets and alleys must have been missed off by the enumerators.

I've been looking too, at the Family Trees on Ancestry.  I've seen Ol's Wilson/Ellington tree, but there is another one with exactly the same information, except the Harriet Ellington on this tree, is the one born in St. Mary's Lambeth, Surrey!!  She even has the same date of death as our Harriet!

I think we've just about exhausted all the possibilities.  Perhaps this is one of those brick walls that will have to go on the back burner for a while.....

Maybe when this new History Centre opens in Hull, some more records will come to light  (we hope!)

best wishes, and well done for all your work, Jill,
Yorkslass

[jillruss]

Thanks, Yorkslass. If truth be told, I quite enjoyed myself!

I still think Ol should try to follow up the Harriet in Hull Prison in 1841 - as you say, when the new History Centre opens. I think it might also be worth looking into the baptism in Lambeth for Harriet Ellington - there certainly don't seem to be any likely candidates up here in Yorkshire (unless, of course, Ellington wasn't her maiden name.)

Jill

[OLFEN1]

Hi Jill & Yorkslass, I have discounted the Harriet in the Goal, as I have found her and William [her husband] still at the prison on the 1861 Census, William being a prison Warder. So they are out of the frame.I feel sure that the whole family must have been Baptists. And it may also account for not been able to find Harriets birth in Hull.
I think the Beverley connection can be discounted as well, as there are is no evidence for that, and I have the proof that this Harriet did indeed marry Joseph Dale. The family appear on the 1851 Census together.
So I am left with the Salthouse Lane Baptist Chapel as the only connection I have with the family.
Do you know if there is any information to be had on the Baptist Chapel's of Hull ?.
And where I should look for them.
The other family tree you found on Ancestry, is a cousin of mine, and she is in the dark about Harriet, as much as I am.
But strange as it may sound, I finally feel that I am getting somewhere with this family, thanks to you both.
Ol