Ellington's of Hull

[jillruss]

Ol,

How local are you to Hull?

Sculcoates and Drypool are both now part of Hull and, to my mind, are more or less the same area, so I still don't think you should discount the Daniel Wilson baptised in Drypool.

Have you ever had the chance to look at the parish records? I remember you said you have a copy of Thomas & Harriet's marriage cert but it didn't give any info about her father.

If you can give me a summary of which children you know are theirs, and, if you know, where and when they were born/baptised, I'll pop into the Beverley Record Office sometime soon and look them up to see if, by any chance, it gives any further info. Even father's occupation as a dock labourer might be better than nothing! There's only one Drypool parish at that time (St Andrew) and 2/3 parishes in Sculcoates. It's probably going to be a bit like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack, looking for Harriet's baptism - as we don't even know she was born/baptised in Hull - but I'll give it a whirl.

I still haven't been able to find that Beverley baptism you thought you had for Harriet - can you point me at it, and then I might be able to look for her baptism as well (I still think she may be the one!).

Got to do something - this is driving me mad! 

Just looking again at your post re 1851 census, Elizabeth must have been born after the introduction of civil reg. Have you sent for her birth cert?

Jill

[OLFEN1]

Hi Jill, I live in East Hull, and thanks for your kind offer. I don't get chance to get to Beverley very often, although I have been to the archives in the past.
I don't have a copy of Thomas & Harriet's marriage, it is the marriage certificate for his marriage to Mary Banks that I have. On it he gives his address as Simminson Gallery, Little queen St. And that he is a "widower", occupation as "labourer". Mary gave her address as Holderness Road, and she was a "spinster". As I say, my Harriet died 27th Oct 1848, at the same address Thomas gave on his marriage to Mary.
Harriet & Thomas married 28th Oct 1833 St. Mary's, and Thomas married Mary Banks the same date 28th Oct 1849. Salthouse Lane Baptists Chapel.
I know Thomas & Harriet had three Children, Daniel chr. 29-9-1833. Elizabeth chr. 18-3-1843. Ellen, I believe she was born 1845-6.
Thinking about the 1851 Census, and not finding Ellen there, it is possible that Mary Banks had had a bad time of it when her daughter Jane was born. [she had no more children].  So possibly she was unable to cope with Ellen, who would have been two or three at the time. Elizabeth was  different, as she was of school age.
What do you think.
I also have the certificate of marriage for Harriet Wilson & Joseph Dales by the way. I sent for it hoping it may give some insight on who she was, or her fathers name, but sadly it doesn't.
This may be irrelevant, but I have found a marriage for a Thomas Wilson & Harriet Bennell 1838 St. James. Sutton, on it, she states, she is a "widow". And also a death for Thomas Wilson 1840 Sutton aged 39. The plot thickens.
The only bapt that I have for a Harriet Ellington is chr. 28-9-1802  Preston nr Hull. parents John Ellington & Mary.

Ol

[jillruss]

I was going to say that you could access these records at the Hull Archives but I believe they're closed to the public at the moment whilst they prepare to move into their new building - the History Centre! Should be quite something as I understand it's combining Hull City Archives with those of Hull University. I think it's due to open later this year, so I shall look forward to visiting!

I think a good start would be to look for the 1833 marriage record and hope that it gives some extra info. Just one thing though - you said it took place at St Mary's (Lowgate?) but the IGI has it at All Saints, Sculcoates. Then at the Preston baptism for a Harriet Ellington in 1802, which seems a bit early. Perhaps I'll also take a quick look in the Beverley PRs for Harriet's baptism - I see William Ellington was baptised at St Mary & St Nicholas.

I'm also going to have a look at the PR entry in Drypool for the Daniel Wilson baptised 1833 because I still think he's yours.

You know, this is all a bit like wading through treacle! I've just looked on the IGI for Elizabeth Wilson's baptism in c.1843 and can only find one baptised at Holy Trinity, Hull in 1842 but she is d/o Thomas & Ann.!!  I'm wondering if they even bothered to have their children baptised.

Anyway, if none of the above records reveal any extra info, I shall admit defeat and fall on my sword!  I hate admitting defeat!! 

Jill

[Sisterjane]

Jill...you are doing a marvelous job with this thread and im fascinated with it..so dont you go giving up just yet as them swords are mighty sharp you fall on them !!

For what its worth I agree with you regarding Daniel/Drypool connection and looking at all the other cencus there is no Daniel Wilson b 1833/4 b Drypool or anywhere else that fits apart from the one in 1851 living with Thomas and Mary

Jane

[OLFEN1]

Hi Jill, you are not going to believe this, but I have been searching for Ellen on the 1851 Census, and I have come across something really strange. You know I have Thomas & Mary Banks at 3, Simpson's Gallery, Little Queen St. [I have the print out for this]. But I have just come across at the same address a William Wilson.
Thomas's 107/2363/Myton 3/104v  3, Simpson Gallery, Little Queen St.
William's   107/2363/Myton3/pg 19  3, Simmonson's  Building, Little Queen St.
I will give you what it say's on William.

William Wilson  "hd"  42.   Boilermaker.  b. Hull
Jane  Wilson      wife   29.   Bookbinder  b. Hull
Edwin  Wilson    son    20    Boilermaker  b. Hull
John   Wilson      son    10    Scholar         b. Hull
Ellen   Wilson       dau     8     Scholar        b. Hull
John Beadle      Stepson  7    Scholar        b. Hull
Ann  E   Wilson    dau       2mnths              b. Hull.
So what do you make of this.
I have looked on the B.D.M. for Hull, and found a marriage for William Wilson & Jane Beadle.   H.T.C.  1849.
The plot thickens. William and Thomas are related in some way, either brothers or cousins, I have yet to find out.
I suppose Thomas could have been in the process of moving out of there and into Primrose Place, as the building itself would have only been rooms to let.
I am really finding things out since I made contact with you girls, but my head is spinning. Your dealing with an O.A.P. here you know.
You mention Elizabeth and say, you can only find a Thomas & Ann, I suppose it's possible that Harriet went by the name Ann, or is this just a fancy of mine.
I am still reeling over the census.

Ol

[Yorkslass]

Hello Ol, Jill and Jane,

I know what you mean about your head spinning Ol - so is mine.  I keep having to re-read all these posts to get my head round it.

There seem to be Wilsons everywhere (but not many Ellingtons).

Anyway, Jill, if you do make it to the Beverley Records office, there is a Removal Order of Thomas Wilson, Harriet, his wife, from St. Martin Parish to St. Mary Parish, Beverley.  It's dated 30 January 1834, and the reference is QSU/4/137/7.  (I tried to post a link, but it wouldn't let me!) If you go onto the East Riding Archives, and the "Virtual Heritage Library", then search for Wilson, it's number 43 on the list.

I know we're going back to Beverley, but the names and dates fit!!

Ol, the book I was talking about is called "Aspects of Hull" by David Goodman.  My mum (who still lives in Hull) bought me it a few years ago, at Browns, I believe, and is still available to buy.  There is an interesting chapter about "Hull Prison and its inmates".....but no names, unfortunately.

I'll keep looking too

Yorkslass

[OLFEN1]

Hi Jill & Yorklass, just to let you know I have found William Wilson on the 1861 census for Marlborough Terrace, and Ellen is with them.
What is this Removal Order that you refer to Yorklass, I haven't heard of this before.
Ol

[OLFEN1]

Thanks Yorklass by the way, for the info on Hull, I will try and get a copy.
Ol

[Yorkslass]

Ol,

Removal Orders are all to do with “Poor Relief” – these orders were used to send poor people back to their parish of settlement.  The Justices of the Peace for an area would issue an order if they thought a person or family needed parish relief, but had no right to settlement in their area.  So these poor people would be sent back to their place of “legal settlement”.

They vary, I think, in the information they contain, but can be quite useful in confirming where people lived, especially if children are involved.

If Jill is able to look at the Order for Thomas and Harriet Wilson if she goes to Beverley, and they are the right couple, it could show whether they had a son called Daniel. 

Yorkslass