James Grace - Blacksmith - Westminster

[trisholdham]

Hi Chris,
Your email has been taken off, so the only way to connect is through Ancestry, I have a pedigree chart on Ancestry .com.au the way to find it is to go into Ancestry.au
 and put into search your James Grace etc and then look for people that have a tree on there, I should come up as Trish Oldham.  Hope this helps.
Charlotte never did marry James Grace.  James Grace was born 15th Sept 1813 Westminster - a Blacksmith by trade. He first married Mary Ann Bennett in 1839 she died in child birth 1845 age 22
James father was James Grace b. 1756 St Johns Westminster , mother Ann Elizabeth Blomfield they married 1803 Lambath St Mary's.
James and Charlotte Oaks had 6 children
George James 1847 Edmonton  -  married Jane Smith 1864 Lambath
Elizabeth Ann 1849 Nth Buxton Surrey - married James Henry Tivey 1869 Woolwich
Charlotte  1852 Kennington Lambath
Hannah Jane 1854  Greenwich Kent - married James Pike 1875 Liverpool
Frederick  28/6/1860 Lambath - married Adelaide Hall 1881  Deptford Kent
Alfred 1865    Lambath  died 1886 age 20   never married,  in 1881 he was living at 25 Sophia St West Deby with his mother.
Hope this information helps
Regards
Trish Oldham
 

[trisholdham]

Hi Chris again, just re read your message about Frederick Grace, his wife Adelaide Hall died in 1937 at Eastleigh Winchester and also Frederick dies 1936 also at Eastleigh Winchester.  When I went to Winchester many years ago when my husband David who comes through Frederick, we did 6 weeks holiday in England from Australia and we found the house still there, I was tempted to knock on the door, but didn't. I do have a picture of the house.
unfortunately there tomb stones were up next to a lot of others by the wall, as the grave yards were being made into a car park.
Trish

[dawnsh]

Hi Chris & Trish

Rootschat has a personal message system you can use to exchange email details but you need a post count of 2+ to be able to use it.

A reply on this topic will help.

https://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php

Dawn

[wessexboy]

Hi Trish, Thanks very much for your very quick reply and information. I found it interesting to see that there was a big gap between Hannah Jane's birth in 1854 and Frederick in 1860 - a perfect timeslot for Thomas to be born in 1856. It would seem that Charlotte and James Grace had some sort of breakup in the family as they weren't living together as 1871 and 1881 censuses show and several children were staying with relatives. I have never found any connection with Thomas having been born in Worthing, Sussex but I honestly don't think he ever knew who his parents were. He didn't even mention them as being Next of Kin on the Army attestation in 1880 - only Frederick his brother in Liverpool was shown. I also found it interesting that by 1911 Frederick Grace had moved to Bishopstoke in order to work at Eastleigh Railway Works. Locomotive building had transferred from London to Eastleigh in January the previous year so it looks likely that Frederick had moved for the work. My great-grandfather Thomas Grace was only 58 but blind by now and died in December 1911, so if Frederick was Thomas's brother he would have been living only 5 miles or so from him.
I know quite a bit about the area as I was born in Winchester and still live 5 miles from Eastleigh so if I can help you with more about Frederick please just ask me. I know of some good photos of Eastleigh Rail Works as my brother worked there for a lot of his working life! If Thomas can be proved to be Frederick's brother and James's father I can offer a lot more info for your tree! Looking forward to hearing your comments.

[trisholdham]

Hi Chris
Have you ever got Thomas's marriage, as they may have his fathers name on it .
If you don't have it I have found it on FREE BMD, but under Thomas they have the wrong ref number you would need to get it by sending off for  Kate Grist ref  2c- 241 Dec Qtr  Winchester. Your Winchester archives are great I was able to get a few certificates from them while we were there.
It does not look like Thomas was ever registered for his birth?
Frederick Grace in 1881 census was on the Vessel "Beatrice" as an Able Seamen. so he could have been living in the Liverpool area, when not on board ship.
Bye for now
Trish

[wessexboy]

Hi Trish, Thanks for your latest reply. Sorry for the late reply but I have been doing some more research. Re. Thomas Grace. I don't believe he really knew when he was born. I can't find him mentioned with any certainty on 1861 or 1871 censuses. It should have been fairly easy as I know his father (from Tom's wedding certificate) was George Grace and that from Tom's Army attestion form gives Frederick Grace as being Next of Kin alive with a date of 18/4/81, Liverpool. Was this a notable date for Frederick. From your info I can see that Frederick was in Liverpool around about that time although he does seem to have married later this same year.
Amy attestation for Thomas on 26/7/1880 says he was 24 years 2 months giving a d.o.b of Amay 1856 in Worthing, Sussex but no records have been found.
1881 census: Thomas was on duty in Ireland so can't see him on census.
Marr certificate 2/10/1889 aged 32 (father: George Grace, coachman, deceased) supposed dob 1857
1891 census: aged 33 (supposed dob 1858)
1901 census: aged 44 (supposed dob 1857)
1911 census: aged 53 (supposed dob 1858)
Burial (parish record) 7/12/1911 aged 58 (supposed dob 1853)
Death cert 4/12/1911 (supposed dob 1853)
So from all this you can see he may not have know his date of birth!
But I am beginning to think that Thomas may have been related to Frederick and James (George!) Grace. I'd be interested to hear from you with any comments. Thanks, Chris

[trisholdham]

Hi Chris
Have you done your DNA yet ?   Dave my husband has on Ancestry and if you do your DNA with Ancestry UK it will connect you to him which will be a definite match. Your Thomas is quite a puzzle.

Trish

[wessexboy]

Hi Trish,
No, I haven't done my DNA yet but I think it's about time I did! Thanks for your advice and help.
Best wishes, Chris