Author Topic: Memories of the lanes  (Read 24674 times)

Offline bobgraham

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #45 on: Thursday 07 May 09 14:07 BST (UK) »
Good one Geoff. I don't know whether I've posted this before but it is apposite. I read somewhere that where English St meets the Citadel near that lane through to Warwick rd was the municipal soot tip. I suppose if the gas works were where the station is now, it makes sense. Coal soot is one of the most carcinogenic things known at the time so why they would have a dump in the middle of town astounds me. As a chemist, I should also know what they used it for but I don't. There must have been uses than lampblack!
bob
Cumberland: Graham and Greenop
Yorkshire: Altass
Scottish Isles: McLean

Offline emmsthheight

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,334
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #46 on: Monday 11 May 09 22:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Bob

Sorry, can't remember enough chemistry to deal with soot!  I've a horrible feeling I did once!

Just thought I'd say, I've been sorting through papers to try and limit them - again!, and came across some sheets of baptisms - 1840's and early 1850's - and there are consecutive entries for Water Street and Water Lane, so the two names were both in use at the same time.

Best wishes

Emms
Hoey : Louth, Dublin, Lancashire,
Diggle: Pendleton Lancashire,
Stickley: Dorset, Lancashire
Bockmann, Boedemann etc Artist, Europe and London

English Merchants in Brazil and Portugal especially Carruthers family

1st Battalion Connaught rangers WW1

Website:  Look  out for new website coming soon to replace Fells and Seas

Offline bobgraham

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #47 on: Friday 26 June 09 12:32 BST (UK) »
Just posted a new topic on "story of carlisle" but one thing in it was relevant to here. A photo of the townhall square and the green market shows a lot more buildings so presumably there were more lanes there as well.
bob
Cumberland: Graham and Greenop
Yorkshire: Altass
Scottish Isles: McLean

Offline Geoff-E

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,227
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #48 on: Friday 26 June 09 13:38 BST (UK) »
... the municipal soot tip. ... Coal soot is one of the most carcinogenic things known at the time so why they would have a dump in the middle of town astounds me.

I don't suppose that they did know at that time of its carcenogenic properties.

I doubt that the soot tip had anything to do with the gasworks.  Perhaps it was a place that the good folk of the borough could get rid of their soot.  In those days, very few of them would have had 4 x 4s to enable them to recycle their waste at the out-of-town Civic Amenity Site.
Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days alive.


Offline morskaj

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #49 on: Thursday 06 August 09 02:12 BST (UK) »
Hi all,  I will be going to the archives in Carlisle either Friday or Monday, I will see if there are any old maps in there with Water Lane on them.  Anything else you want me to look for?  Morskaj.

Offline emmsthheight

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,334
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #50 on: Thursday 06 August 09 21:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Morskaj

Welcome to Rootschat!

Thank you for your kind offer.  I thought I'd have been up long since, but I haven't. 

I'll have to get up there, but if you do get, and do get chance to look, it would be really interesting to know what happens to these lanes around the station on the first mao after it opened.

I've got a copy of  the early one before the station, but I think it might be early utilitoies 1850's and  Ordnance Survey, 1860's.

Don't worry though.  Make sure you get done what you need.  Time goes so quickly.

I really hope you have a successful trip with or without Water Lane.  The others were Water Street and Watergate Lane.

Enjoy Rootschat!

Best wishes

Emms
Hoey : Louth, Dublin, Lancashire,
Diggle: Pendleton Lancashire,
Stickley: Dorset, Lancashire
Bockmann, Boedemann etc Artist, Europe and London

English Merchants in Brazil and Portugal especially Carruthers family

1st Battalion Connaught rangers WW1

Website:  Look  out for new website coming soon to replace Fells and Seas

Offline morskaj

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #51 on: Friday 07 August 09 00:52 BST (UK) »
Hi again, In case you've never heard of it, there is a great site on Carlisle's history at www.cumberlandscarrow.com.  There is a page of maps.  There are two maps, the second is in 1790.  If you look at the bottom right-hand corner you will see the very top of Botchergate and if you magnify the page using 'tools' there is a place behind that could be Water Gate Lane, but it seems to be spelt with 'y's in it, so possibly Water Gayt Layne(?).  Have a look and see what you think.  There are a few other excellent page of Carlisle's pubs and other history.
If you have 'google earth' you can have a look at Water Street now.  There is a roundabout at one end and at the other you will see that it curves and follows the wall built for the railway station.  If you then compare that with the map, you will see that the possible site for Water Gate Lane is directly on top of the railway station now. 
There is a book called 'Carlisle in Camera', I can'tsee an ISBN number on it, but maybe you could get a copy from your library(?), on page 33 there is a photograph of Mill Street after the Viaduct was built.  (Incidently, if you do go on google maps - follow Water Street along the railway station wall and go as far as you can to the end and this was the site of Mill Street.  You will see a building with a light coloured 'loop' on the side, this is the city bath's and the loop is the water chute!). 
The lanes area of Carlisle at that time was extensive.  It stretched from Devonshire Street all the way down into Rickergate, (just outside the city wall's), and on the other side fron behind the town hall, again into Rickergate.  There were 8 - 10 thousand people living in the lanes, some with one open end and some with two.  There may have been one or maybe two 'privvies', (toilet's) per lane, with up to 200 user's of them.  There was of course no water closet's then, they had cesspit's which were emptied by farmer's every so often.  That along with the Stable's, piggeries and cow shed's made for very unsanitary conditions, leading to outbreaks of Typhoid and Dysentry a few times.
Again there is a book with photographs of the lanes, it is 'Images of England, Carlisle, from the Kendal collection', ISBN 0-7524-2486-6, the pictures are on page 75.  Would you believe these houses were still occupied in 1964!?!  One of the pictures is of inspectors visiting, to try to get the residents to agree to the compulsary purchase order! (Note the tin bath outside the door!!).  Anyway it's now late so I'll stop now.  (Once I get started....),  See you later, Morskaj.

Offline emmsthheight

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,334
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #52 on: Friday 07 August 09 12:05 BST (UK) »
Hi Morskaj

What a star!

So we need to lookat some more ancient history, not just the bit we have missing in the 1800's!

Water Gayet Layne?!?  Interesting!  So it does go right through the station as I thought!  But no evidence and you've provided it!  I know the area and I'd looked behind the station and on Water St, but couldn't tie it in.  I wonder if it went under where the underpass and old lifts are?

I've been at this quite a while, but never seen that site.

I've also got the Carlisle in Camera book, but I couldn't quite make the link!  I've not come across the other book either.

Sounds fascinating!

We just had to wait for you to come along with all your extra input!  Thank you for the extra background too.  I knew the state of the Lanes was dire but not those details and the proiportions were even worse than I'd guessed.

You must have a really thorough knowledge of the local history.

Thank you for sharing!

I've not looked at your site yet.  I will have a good play on that.  It would be useful in the Cumberland resources if it's not there already.

Thank you again.

Best wishes

Emms
Hoey : Louth, Dublin, Lancashire,
Diggle: Pendleton Lancashire,
Stickley: Dorset, Lancashire
Bockmann, Boedemann etc Artist, Europe and London

English Merchants in Brazil and Portugal especially Carruthers family

1st Battalion Connaught rangers WW1

Website:  Look  out for new website coming soon to replace Fells and Seas

Offline morskaj

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Memories of the lanes
« Reply #53 on: Friday 07 August 09 18:52 BST (UK) »
Hi, I've found another site with photo's of the lanes of Rickergate on, it also shows you some history of the area.  www.sosrickergate.com.  The reason it's 'sos' is because they want to knock it down.  I have a map (1821), showing Water Street and Water Gate Lane on it, but no Water Lane.  Water Street as we know it now was not built at that time so they obviously relocated it after the railway station was built.  I'll have to get hubby to scan it and then I'll send it on, See you soon,  Morskaj.