Memories of the lanes

[bobgraham]

did some digging to find watergate must have been quite important as it had 1 of 4 carlisle schools in it - the lancastrian school. That moved to Mary st in 1834. Also found newcastle railway ran from the port road (between the biscuit factory and the hospital) where it joined up with ship canal. When this joined eventually with the N/S (Lancastrian) railway it did so at "London Road Station". We didn't go north for a few years after. Can find no mention of Blackwell Lane or even Blackwell Rd - presumably as they were well out of "Carlisle" in those days. Remember just about anything  outside the city walls was in the parish of St. Cuthburt Without.
bob

[emmsthheight]

Hi Bob!

Wow! Fascinating stuff!  I tried to do some digging but not as successfully.

I did gather that there were a good few companies with their own goodsyards - 7?  Need to look it up when I come in.  Also, I dug up some old photo's in a book of bits of station and railway being built.  More round the viaduct though, so didn't quite get the right place.

I tried to work out where bits of Water Gate/ Street/ Lane had been.  I looked behind Matalan, and there are various bits remaining, but couldn't fathom how far over the lane would be. 

This stuff about the school though is fascinating.  I'd like to find out  a bit more about that! 

I'm going to look at my map again too, after what you said on Watert Gate etc.

Thanks for getting back.

Emms

[bobgraham]

On carlislehistory.co.uk and under w and watergate you get the following
"WATERGATE LANE Near John Street; so marked on Wood’s 1821 map of city
CJ 23.09.1826 p1f Ad. 22 dwelling rooms newly built for sale"
Now I don't understand the references but if you put john st into google I think the soft logic kicks in and you gate jane st near willowholme.
But all the other named sts are between cecil st and james st! which is where we had watergate. Could somebody bright like  Geoff help us on this?
bob

[emmsthheight]

Hi Bob

Dragged out another map - not the latest, but fairly modern, Nicholson.  For one thing, there were loads of tiny streets in the space you mention, which have disappeared.

For another problem, I had another look today and there are bits of streets on different levels because of the building of the railway, and the station.  Of course there are tunnels underneath the station too.

We do know from the Wood's map that Water Street is the other side of Collier Lane from Cecil Street.  It joins at right angles.  I think it iss maybe where if you come out of the long stay car park, there is the remains of a lane formed of sets that hits Collier Lane almost opposite the doors of the hotel garage, just out of site on my photo of Collier Lane above.

On my more modern map, South John Street is between Crown Street and Water Street, as opposed to John Street near Caldewgate.

Having a think!

Emms

[GeoffE]

Could somebody bright like Geoff help us on this?

Hi Bob, I guess once you have charm, it never leaves you!

If you look at http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=339287&Y=556091&A=Y&Z=110 you will see a short stretch of B5299 linking the Wigton Road to Shaddongate ... I believe that was John St.

See http://www.old-maps.co.uk/IndexMapPage2.aspx
Search Carlisle
Move north a bit
Zoom in a bit

As I said, I don't know Carlisle at all

[emmsthheight]

1828/9 Pigot's:

The Cossack, John Sowerby was on Water Lane.  Also various manufacturers and shops.  I'd hoped for a tavern we'd recognise.

PF Doran has a school in Watergate Lane and Timothy Powel is master at your Lancaster School in Water Lane

Going to look at map again!

Best wishes

Emms

[emmsthheight]

Hi Goeff

An expert!  That sounds like the John St on the other side.  Thank you!  A link to Old Maps.  Just what I need!

Best wishes

Emms

[emmsthheight]

Hi

Earliest map is 1868. 

Even by then, Water Street is more or less where it is today.  Link is hopefully large scale around the station.  I'm intrigued though.  Maybe it's a boundary or something goes along where that bit of lane from Collier Lane goes,  right across (Under>), the station and across James Street onto the river path that's marked as Watergate Lane on the old map.

I'm itching to find a copy of that book on the building of Citadel Station!

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/IndexMapPage2.aspx

Best wishes
Emms

Modified:  Looks like you can't do that.  Goes to the search page.

If you put Collier Lane in though, Carlisle is at the top of the huge drop down list, or try Citadel Station.

Emms

[bobgraham]

Emms, on Geoff's second 1868 map, there are at least 3 thoroughfairs between James st and the station only 1 of which is named. Also there is a road/lane that runs right up to the station wall and appears at the other side right into collier lane where you predicted below the gaol tap (is that still there?). Also it shows the North Eastern Railway running under the bridge on Rome st and the Lamplugh Works cotton and woollen where the gas works is now but the road isn't named. I'll look for lamplugh works to see if I can get an address - it didn't come up on google.
The other interesting thing is that James st runs into Mill st at the top end on the route of what we would call victoria viaduct.
bob