Author Topic: ATTEWELL  (Read 29695 times)

Offline tiggi

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #45 on: Monday 06 June 16 11:44 BST (UK) »
Hi Mike

I agree that John Henry Attewell b 1842 • Blackwood Glamorgan Wales is very likely son of Richard & Charlotte Joles and his death was  OCT. 20, 1881 • Springfield Sangamon Illinois, confirmed by his will leaving property and land to spouse Maila and children Druscella Richard Charlotte William Dangerfull Filly and Jemima.
Maila/Amelia died 28 JAN 1887 • Sangamon County, Illinois, USA and all was passed to the children.
She died 1-28-1887 at 38Y of consumption in Ridgely, Illinois.
She was daughter of Henry Manley 1822 • Wimborne Minster, Dorset, England
DEATH 8 FEB 1888 • Honiton, Devon, England
&
Matlida Wells 1823 • Exeter, Devon, England
DEATH JUN 1899 • Axminster, Devon, England
her parents were James Wells and Ruth Small

TENETT BUCKLAND & PLATO BUCKLAND ( MY LINEAGE)
  Buckland Smith James Stanley Lovell Loveridge Lee Cooper Penfold/Pinfold Orchard Boswell Broadway Wells
 
AREAS OF INTEREST CORNWALL DEVON

USA   Worton Stanley Joles Cooper  Jeffrey Small
 all English lines of Roms who are found in America

UK Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rebekahm28

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 08 June 16 11:53 BST (UK) »
I had Henry and Hannah Maria having 3 children together; Matilda, William and Richard. But if Hannah Maria was born c1855 the first 2 weren't hers, Henry must have had a previous wife. So including Rebecca Scamp, he was married 3 times? Someone has posted on here that Rebecca's surname was Scamp. Tiggi: Richard and Celia's daughter who died aged 8 was called Hannah, but her death was registered as Annie as that's what they called her. My great granny was her aunty and camped with her. Celia lost her husband, daughter and father all in 1918.
Casaubon (Geneva, London), Daulinge, Berners, McMullen (Nottingham), Tabb (Leics), Mycock (Derbys & Staffs), Gilbert (Notts), Price (s Wales), Krilovs/similar, gypsy Roberts, gypsy Clark, Bexell (Sussex), gypsy Elliott, Raven, Neligan (Co Kerry), Rymer, Newton (Hull).

Offline tiggi

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #47 on: Wednesday 08 June 16 12:55 BST (UK) »
Hi rebekahm
I think you maybe muddling up children :

Henry Atewell was b 1855 although it does vary on census, he was son of Richard 1825 • Berkshire, England DEATH 1899 • Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales.
 &
Charlotte Joles 1822 8TH JULY • Colyton, Devon, England - DEATH 1907 • Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales

Henry then wed/partnered Anna/Hanna Maria Loveridge b 1855 • Cardiff, Glamorgan
DEATH APRIL OF 1879 • Cardiff, Glamorganshire
With her he had 2 children I found:
Richard  J Attewell  JULY 1877 • Newport, Monmouthshire - DEATH 22 SEP 1918 • France and Flanders - spouse Celia Roberts
Fiance Attewell 1879 APRIL • Gower, Glamorgan - DEATH 1880 JAN • Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Thus when his mother died Hanna Maria  *Richard J * went to live with his grandparents before he wed Celia Roberts.

1880/1  Richard J father -Henry remarried Rebecca Railey ( I cannot find anyone named Scamp) b 1861 Cardiganshire, Wales
They had Bertie b 1881 -Emanuel b 1884- Sophia/Cissy b 1885- Priscilla b 1887-- May b 1902

I also found  Matilda Attewell b 1883 Llandovery Carmarthenshire which was same place Bertie was born, could be his sister.

There was a Mary Rebecca Attewell b 1908 Llandovery Carmarthenshire  likely child of Emanuel

Charlotte Attewell 1912 Llandovery Carmarthenshire  mother Hughes who I think is daughter of Emanuel and Mary Hughes

-----------
 Matilda, William and Richard were children of Richard and Charlotte thus Henry siblings and also Mary

Mary b 1856 • Weston Super Mare, Somerset, England spouses were Albert Jones and Wm H Welch
Matilda b 1862 • Bridgend, Glamorgan - DEATH SEP 1938 • Newport, Gwent, Wales spouse was Albert H Pengelly
William b 1863 • Sussex, England - DEATH 1893 • Glamorgan, Wales the only proof of a spouse was via his will Mary Ann ? when he left her £40.

That leave one more son John Henry Attewell who married Maley Manley he was  b 1842 - Glamorgan, Wales - Death:  20 Oct 1881 - Springfield

John Henry Attewell is very likely son of Richard & Charlotte Joles and his death was  OCT. 20, 1881 • Springfield Sangamon Illinois, confirmed by his will leaving property and land to spouse Maila and children Druscella Richard Charlotte William Dangerfull Filly and Jemima.
Maila/Amelia was daughter of Henry Manley 1822 • Wimborne Minster, Dorset, England
DEATH 8 FEB 1888 • Honiton, Devon, England
&
Matlida Wells 1823 • Exeter, Devon, England
DEATH JUN 1899 • Axminster, Devon, England
her parents were James Wells and Ruth Small

Henry Manley was son of William Manley and Sarah Fletcher she was b 1786 • Owermoigne, Dorset, England the daughter of William Fletcher & Sylvia/Selbea Stanley
Sylvia father was Peter Stanley.

Wm  Fletcher & Sylvia  Stanley married 06 Jun 1781 Millbrook,Hampshire,England and her parents Peter and Sarah Stanley, “vagabonds,” on 22nd August 1762 baptised William her brother another brother Paul, in Hampshire at South Warnborough on 10th September 1775.




Hope this makes sense
TENETT BUCKLAND & PLATO BUCKLAND ( MY LINEAGE)
  Buckland Smith James Stanley Lovell Loveridge Lee Cooper Penfold/Pinfold Orchard Boswell Broadway Wells
 
AREAS OF INTEREST CORNWALL DEVON

USA   Worton Stanley Joles Cooper  Jeffrey Small
 all English lines of Roms who are found in America

UK Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline attewellm

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #48 on: Thursday 09 June 16 00:27 BST (UK) »
Hello Stephen,

I would love to hear more about your grandfather Emmanuel and any associated dates you have.  I am also very intrigued and interested in his brothers who came to the states.  Do you have any more detail on that such as which brothers, when and where in the states they went to?  Regards,

Mike


Offline Zenigma

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 04 September 16 18:08 BST (UK) »
Hi. I've just stumbled on this thread as I'm looking for a particular Attewell. However, I notice some dialogue about Amelia Manley b c. 1847. I think she is definitely mistranslated in the 1861 census as Maria (it's not so different phonetically to 'melia). Although the census says she was born in Dorset the family were travelling throughout the South West. I believe Amelia was baptised in Misterton, Somerset on 17 January 1747 d/o Henry & Matilda Manley.

The person I'm currently researching is Harriet Attewell bp 26 May 1877 at Dingestow, Monmouth. She was the daughter of Stephen and Mahalah Ayres. Mahala was baptised as a Burton in Somerset but  travelled in Wales under the name Ayres (her grandmother's maiden name). Mahala (also known as Ela) had several relationships but always baptised her children under the name of Ayres. So, Harriet's father may not be an Ayres. I'm trying to find out with which Attewell Harriet formed a relationship. Apart from her baptism, the only other record I've found for Harriet is on the 1901 census where she is listed as Harriet Attewell aged 22 and living with her grandmother who is listed as Harriet Burton.

Offline panished

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #50 on: Saturday 17 September 16 08:21 BST (UK) »
helo

Their is a record in the Shepton Mallet Journal Friday 26 May 1916, this is about a John Atterwell travelling with three Gipsy vans.
also, in 1910 their is a record of a Richard Attewell a Gipsy. the Goucester Journal 29 0f October
in 1897 on the 2 July Friday, their is a Richard Attewell story, it says

"An Aged Man And His Old Horse,"

he is described as a travelling hawker and an octogenarian. South Wales Echo


in 1893, William died, a very tragic death, I have never seen so many records of any account with a Gipsy in, if you take the time to really look, you will find little answers that do not appear in just one record, in one record it says, William Attewell died, 25 years of age single, hawker, then in another it says Wm Attewell hawker who leaves a Widow and six Children, then another, William Attewell 25 hawker, his Wife and Family of six Children are encampt on Whitechurch Common,

their is one record that says

The Gipsys Sister,

it says the court gave an involuntary murmaur of surprise when they saw a very respectable dressed woman coming forwards to give evidence of identification, and stated that She was the Sister of the deceased Gipsy. She is the Wife of a industrious and honest collier, living on the Craig at Pontypridd.
then I found a record that says She was known as Mrs Walsh, and this time William was 29, and had a Wife and several Children. William died in a massive train crash.

in Wales in 1872 Pricilla Smith described as a Hawker, Richard Attiwell a travelling Gipsy Tinker and Mary Attiwell a Gipsy Girl were all trying to get pedlars licences evan thoe they had been refused,

1890 William Attewell was summoned for four straying horses, Gloucester Journal 19 July.

in 1854 in the Winsor and Eton Express plus the Berkshire Chronicle Saturday 21 of October William Attewell 23, and Peggy Sherry 21, were charged with stealing, they were Gipsies and labourers ,forlorn looking Creatures, evidently in having been in the habit of leading a wandering life.
The male prisoner said he had sold to his Sister in misfortune the cart and cloth, the prisoner said if you want me you will find me at Gipsy Lane_ a great rendezvous of that romantic yet roguish tribe.
from reading this I think Peggy was his Sister.



Monmouthshire Beacon Saturday 23 February 1850
Edward Smith, John Jenkins, Richard Atterwell
Benjamin Smith, defendants appeared with their faces severely lacerated and bruised, they had been engaged in fighting at the fair

Reading Mercury Monday 14 March Berkshire
TO CONSTABLES, GAOLERS, AND OTHERS.
Whereas, John Hattewell the Older, and John Hattewell the Younger whos place of residence is supposed to be Halderind ? Gloucestershire, who ever will apprehend and lodge them in his Majesty's Gaol shall receive five guineas reward upon application to Mr John Hoare, of Sutton Courtney, treasurer of the Sutton Association for the Prosecution of Felons.
The said John Hattewell the Older is a thin man, rather dark in complexion about 50 years of age.
They have been in the habit of travelling through the Country in a cart and deal in horses, woollen and linen cloth, they are supposed to be in parts of the counties of Berks or Oxford.
Abingdom, March 10. 1831


Pricilla's Smiths Son did not look old enough
Richard  Attiwell lived in a tent
plus Mary Attiwell was a fortune teller
these were the reasons they did not give them a pedlars licence. the story was in the Cardiff and Merthyr, Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and  Brecon Gazette, Wales
20 January 1872,


these are just extracts, I just write what comes my way, I hope some of the information may be of help to people in their reserch

Offline panished

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #51 on: Sunday 18 September 16 15:45 BST (UK) »
I will just put the last of the records I have been looking at,  I don't know anything about who is below, if none are from the Gipsys at least it is more information for the researches of the future to see the bigger picture, again these articles are just extracts.

Monmouth Fair
Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette.
Saturday 3 June 1835

A man named John Attiwell was apprehended at our fair on Tuesday on suspicion of horse_stealing
The man as been in the habit of attending our fairs as a vender of wooden bowls, on this occasion he was endeavouring to deal in horses, there is information of two more horses having lately been stolen
from Tiddenham in Gloucestershire and another from a different part of the county

Gloucester Chronicle Saturday 20 June 1835

John Attiwell apprehended at Monmouth, on suspicion of horse stealing. Attiwell as been committed to the county goal at Brecon to be tried for stealing the animal the property of James James of Talgarth. William Gilbert of Cluddock in the County of Hereford as identified one horse as being his property

Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan Monmouth and Brecon Gazette
Saturday 15 August 1835

Edward Aston lived at Colfords Lane End in the Parish of Newland Gloucestershire, he first new prisoner when he came about selling bowls and wooden ware, " prisoner came to I and axed I to have a jug o beer, I telled un I couldn't for I had work to do"

this Edward went on to swap horses in a deal with Attiwell, then when he tried to sell the horse himself he told of Attiwell to the police who them arrested Attiwell , this is what the judge said,

The Jury consulted for a few minutes and returned a verdict of guilty, but unanimously recommended the prisoner to mercy, on account of his age, which was stated in the calendar year to be only 18 years. The learned Judge said, that he would take a note of the recommendation, but he had no discretionary power. Some years ago, it was the practice to pass sentence of death on a person convicted of horse stealing, but the legislature had, when they did away with the capital punishment, and substituted it for transportation for life, deprived the judge of all discretionary power. The sentence of the Court was, that the prisoner be transported for life.

in the Hereford Times on Saturday 20 June 1835, it states , The prisoner as long enjoyed a non_enviable reputation, and is suspected of being concerned in many similar transactions.

Monmouthshire Merlin Saturday January 1835
John Attiwell aged 22 and Charles Edwards aged 19 were found guilty of stealing a portion of dead horse, from poor mans field in the Parish of Shire Newton 19 October 1834, the horse had been turned out to graze and on the next day it was discovered dead with the prisoners busily engaged in dismembering the body,

there was a William Attiwell from Shire Newton who was charged with stealing and he lived in a house  in 1833, so he could be related to John Attiwell, William was 47 John was 22, they could just be local Attiwells.

there was a John Attiwell and Thomas Hughes transported for life in the Hereford Journal Wednesday 29 March 1837, they were stealing horses to.

also in the Hereford Journal 13 May 1818, there is a Thomas Attewell horse dealer and farmer, this was the day they telled of his death

when most of the easy answers have been found like the ones I found yesterday, you are left with the hard clues like the ones above, none of these could be Gipsys, some could be related, this is when you need the real experts who can trace back through the many ways of Genealogy, I remember Sue of the Romany Geanes Web Site saying of all the long hours of research and miles of travelling to officers to check records, I will just leave the records of the people I have been writing about, it will help I do hope, others who can do a better research in the future, every bit of help counts,

Respect to all the Long Dead

michael
 
ps , if in oral records names like Scamp were spoken of as connected, well in someway this is more than likely true, Old People knew of things, then down through just one generation the hedgers get trimmed back, finally all you are left with is a mystery, Census records will miss out so many truths, to combine all the ways of researching is the right way to go,   Good Luck to all who search these records

Offline attewellm

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #52 on: Sunday 18 September 16 23:40 BST (UK) »
Excellent, thank you.  I have some of these, but not most.  Regards.

Offline David Attewell

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Re: ATTEWELL
« Reply #53 on: Tuesday 27 September 16 23:31 BST (UK) »
Hi i only recently found this forum i am looking for more on  Richard Attewell who is on the 1891 census at Newport,Woollos,Monmouthshire as born in Alderton,Gloucestershire do i accept this location or look elsewhere.