Author Topic: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham  (Read 148247 times)

Offline Yi Win

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #243 on: Monday 18 April 11 16:56 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Gayle - you are brilliant - we'll figure it out!

So far I've not had a chance today I got tied up dealing with council & forestry issues and as anyone knows dealing with authorities takes ages and ages......

Peter said he'd try and look at dates etc over the weekend so we'll also wait to see what he said.

Gayle - one thing - could the capital P's actually be a I ) - as in a stoke followed by a letter 'C' backwards?

Roman to arabic translations has that often written as 'D' and a C + stroke + back to front 'C' is often written as 'M'

was just hoping for a better date translation! (such luck)

de Blunvil, Blomville. Blomvyle, Blomfield, Bloomfield, Gotterson, Tuck, de Burgh,

Offline Yi Win

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #244 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 16:43 BST (UK) »
The theory so far (and it is only theory and my own opinion)

Dear All,

Today I have sat down wil pen and ink (yes how old fashioned) and drawn out 3 different trees.

The results are inconclusive apart from we know Robert was alive in 1503 and therefore is unlikely to be our link back from the Stonham Robert d 1498.

TREE ONE:-

Family tree de Blunvil - hand written pedigree file No 812

Sir William Blomville of Newton Flotman held NF in 1420 and died bf 1474
he married
Elizabeth Bosvile of Hemelhale alive in 1474

They had sons....
Richard b 1418 c 1503 (Brass at NF) m Katherine Inglosse of Loddon
Robert Blonvill (from whom the Baronet Blomefields decend)
William Blomvyle (living in 1503) from whom William Blomefield m Ann Cutting decended

-----------------
Richard b 1418 c 1503 (Brass at NF) m Katherine Inglosse of Loddon

They had sons
Ralph (Randolphus) Blonvill of NF & Gunton (Brass at NF) m Constance Gourney of West Barsham d 1539 decended from Edward III
Richard B

------------------
Ralph (Randolphus) Blonvill of NF & Gunton m Constance Gourney

They had sons
Edward Blondeville 1499-1567 (Brasss at NF) m Elizabeth Godslave & Barbara Drake

Comments on tree one = looks feasable and dates tie in with Engraving (brass) in church window made by Thomas to his father , grandfather and grt grandfather.

Robert Blonvill (from whom the Baronet Blomefields decend) would rule out this Robert as being our Stonham Robert as we arent decended from Baronets or called Blomefield.

cont.....
de Blunvil, Blomville. Blomvyle, Blomfield, Bloomfield, Gotterson, Tuck, de Burgh,

Offline Yi Win

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #245 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 16:43 BST (UK) »
TREE TWO:-

Yi's tree which should tie in with a few others on here.

Sir William Blomville of Newton Flotman b c1380 held NF from 1440 and died 1424-1499
he married 1408-1460
Elizabeth de Bosville b1391-1421 d 1424-1514

(dates from d'Blunvil pedigree on line)
aslo from visitations of norfolk 1563-1613 on line :- 
Sir William Blundeville & Elizabeth, daughter of .... Boswell.

from Newton Hall Manor of the Blundervilles
and in 1420 William Blumvyle esq, c1380
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham: Swainsthorpe Hall (settled on William Preston by fine)


They had sons....
Richard b 1405 d1490 (engraving) m Catherine Inglosse
Robert Blonvill
William Blomvyle (living in 1503) from whom William Blomefield m Ann Cutting decended
------------------

Richard b 1405 d1490 (engraving) m Catherine Inglosse

They had sons
Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
Newton Hall. The Manor of Blundevilles.
Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham (sold on his death to Roger Woodhouse): Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk: Hempnall Manor: obtained Haveringland Manor - died no heirs

Ralph b c1475  d 22.04.1514
from Pedigree of Gourney
Ralph married Constance Gurney
Ralph married Constance of the House of Gourney in Norfolk in 1498 he was married in West Barham(?) and inherited the Manor of Gurton from his brother Richard. Radulphus owned the Manor of Gurney, Constance eldest sister of Anthony Gurney marreid 1st Ralf Blundeville of Newton Flotman, gentleman, and 2nd William Bohem. The Blundevilles were possessed of Newton Flotham as early as the 3CI regin of King John and retained it many generations, there is a brass to this family of whom Ralph is one he died in 1514


Davys MSS
Radulphus Blomvil Esquire died 22.04 1515 he had a son Edward Blomvil who was his heir who died 1568 aged 75

Newton Hall. The Manor of Blundevilles.
* Richard, c1470 their son who died in 1503
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham (sold on his death to Roger Woodhouse): Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk: Hempnall Manor: obtained Haveringland Manor - died no heirs
 * succeeded by Ralph, c1470  his brother who died in 1514
Held: Blundeville's Manor, Newton Flotman: Blomvile's Manor, Deopham : Ashby & Gunton Manors, Norfolk (sold on his death to Edward Jernegan): Haveringland Manor: obtained Manor of Gurney from wife: obtained Hopton Manor



engraving
EV Book of Blomfield Pedigrees:-

in 1571 Thomas the last head of the family put up a memorial in the church of Newton Flotman to his father, grandgather and grt grandfather
Richard Blondeville ob 1490 aged 85
Radulphus ob 1514 aged 45
Edwardus ob 1568 aged 75

the arms impale those of Inglosse, Gurney, Godsalve, Johnson and Puttenham

Newton Hall, The Manor of the Blundevilles
 in 1388, Rich. Blumvyle held it, and in 1420, Will. Blumvyle, Esq. who was succeeded by Ric. Blomevyle, Esq. and he by Catherine his wife,  and she by Richard their son, who died in 1503; Ralph his brother succeeded, and died in 1514, whose son Edward was lord, and died in 1568; and in 1569, Thomas his son held a court baron and lete, and had purchased and joined to it three parts of



British History on line: Newton
The Manor of Blundeville's, or Newton-Hall,
Which had its name from its owners, and to which the mediety of the advowson of the church belonged; the first that I find of this name owner here, was Will. de Blundeville, Blomevyle, or Blunnel,  who had it of the gift of Henry de Rhye, with Blomevyle's manor in Depham, (vol. ii. p. 491,) he left it to Richard his son, who was lord in 1226, being nephew to Tho. de Blumville Bishop of Norwich, (vol. iii. p. 483,) he was succeeded by William Blumvyle, and he by Katherine his widow; and William their son held it of the manor of Hingham, as of the barony of Rhye; and it was after held of the barony of Montchensy at a quarter of a fee; in 1388, Rich. Blumvyle held it, and in 1420, Will. Blumvyle, Esq. who was succeeded by Ric. Blomevyle, Esq. and he by Catherine his wife,  and she by Richard their son, who died in 1503; Ralph his brother succeeded, and died in 1514, whose son Edward was lord, and died in 1568; and in 1569, Thomas his son held a court baron and lete, and had purchased and joined to it three parts of


So we can basically say TREE ONE & TREE TWO tie up and are probably both based on same source routes (I have put my source routes down in italics)

cont.....
de Blunvil, Blomville. Blomvyle, Blomfield, Bloomfield, Gotterson, Tuck, de Burgh,

Offline Yi Win

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #246 on: Tuesday 19 April 11 16:45 BST (UK) »
TREE THREE

from Will 1503 Richard Blonville

Eldest to youngest (inaccordance with inhertience rights in Will proved 1503)

Richard died bf 1503
William alive 1503
Nicholas died bf 1503 - "Nicholas 'having gone the way of all flesh as it appears'."
Robert  alive 1503 (this discounts Robert Stonham d 1498 as being this one and therefore disproves any link to our branch from here)

-----------------------

Richards sons

(to wife unknown but wife who outlived him and had possesion of Newton Flotman until she died "Raff also gets Newton but Richard's wife has it for the term of her life")

Raff - inherits Hepnall & then Newton on mothers death
Richard - Heverland

by the commnets below in the Will it appear that Raff is most certainly named as the elder brother

notes from Will Proved 1503
(not copied and can not be reproduced due to copyright)

Richard says his sons are Raff & Richard, his wife is alive and he has brothers William Nicholas & Robert.

Raff will inherit Hempnall and Newton but Richards widow stays out her life in Newton.

If Raff dies Richard gets it all.
 
William Nicholas and Robert are executors 
It was proved at Norwich on 30 May 1503.

Robert and William were alive in 1503 but not Nicholas.

COMMENTS:-

Trees 1 and 2 are almost certainly from the same sourses as quoted in italics.

However tree 3 is taken from the Will and definitely says Raff is the eldest and direct inheritant.

Although there is much documented evidence from EV Bloomfield, Francis Bloomfield and the Manorial Records and Pedigree of Gourneys that Raff/Ralph suceeded his brother Richard the Will definitely says otherwise.

Regardless of documents a Will overides everything.

and we have to take this into consideration which could explain a lot - this comes from Yountug and HIS copy of the manorial records of Newton give a slightly differing story.....

The Manor of Blundeville's or Newton Hall
Which had it's name from it's owners.

William DeBlundeville. Bhmevyle or B/unne.
Who had it of the gift of Henry De Rhye with Blomevyles Manor in Depham.
    Left it to;-
                    Richards son, who was Lord in 1226, being nephew to Thomas De Blumville, bishop of Norwich.
                      He [Richard] was succeded byWilliam Blumvyle,
                       And he by Katherine, his widow.
     William,their son held it of the manor of Hingliam, as of the Barony of Rhye.
      In 1388, Richard Blumvyh held it.
And in 1420 William Blumvyle, Esq,  was succeded by Richard Blomevyle, Esq,
And he by Catherine, his wife. And she by

Richard their son, who died in 1514.
Whose son Edward was Lord and died in 1568.
And in 156? Thomas his son held a court Baron & Lete.
[/color]

I think this is a misprint and should read Ralph as Ralph who had the son Edward.

and thereby this error has been copied down into all the italic documents I have quoted above -giving the impression that it was Richard who inherited.

So I think this now solves both matters and trees can be adjusted.

and we have no link to Stonham

Anyone got any other theories please punch holes in all of the above, doesnt bother me - its open for discussion, suggestions and amendments.

Have a good evening - Yi
de Blunvil, Blomville. Blomvyle, Blomfield, Bloomfield, Gotterson, Tuck, de Burgh,


Offline Lady Grace

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #247 on: Wednesday 20 April 11 03:31 BST (UK) »
Thats splendid work by all concerned, now one just have to unravelled, I was always a bit leery about the family  christian names not following through to the sons etc., so where does our John and Thomas come from Yi,  as they were landed gentry..any ideas on who was the father of our 'Gilbert'  as thats quite a positive name, I would have imagined his father or grandfather would be named definetely Gilbert/Gilbertus...will focus on this soon , just have other stuff in the pipeline....who knows where The trail will lead... that was good info from Youngtug!! thanks  all 8)
Blondeville,  Blonville, Blomvyle, Blomfield, etc., Bacon, Mickfield, Bury St Edmunds, Debenham, little Stonham, Winston, Newton Flotman, Stoneham Parva, Normandy France

Offline Yi Win

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #248 on: Wednesday 20 April 11 08:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Lady Grace,

As stated - it is theoretical only, but as you say Gilbertus Will 1415 born Stonham Jernegan and Gilbert born c1450 Stonham wife Elizabeth English - although we know from the Will 1415 this Gilbertus died as a cloth worker in Corn Hills, London - BUT we do know he had brothers John and William.

IF the name Blomvyle has come down the Newton Flotman line (coat of Arms seems to confirm this as they are the same) then yes - where does the name Gilbert come from?

Possibly a younger son named after the mothers father which was a common practice but who is this mysterious Gilbert, who is the mothers family?

I wish the records were more available from this time - if there are any that is!

We also have a Thomas Crowe who we seem to have inherited property from and who's name appears in many National Archive record next to Robert or Thomas Blomvyle from Stonham.

I have tried looking up house Genowes (the one inherited from T Crowe) but havent had any luck finding it.

Someday - maybe.......

 :) Yi
de Blunvil, Blomville. Blomvyle, Blomfield, Bloomfield, Gotterson, Tuck, de Burgh,

Offline Yi Win

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #249 on: Wednesday 20 April 11 08:54 BST (UK) »
PS - which John & Thomas are you referring to?
de Blunvil, Blomville. Blomvyle, Blomfield, Bloomfield, Gotterson, Tuck, de Burgh,

Offline Gayla

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #250 on: Monday 23 May 11 20:57 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone
Have been to Stonham Parva and visited the church.  We took some  photos inside and out of the memorials and the graves. The family are also mentioned in the leaflet  . We also managed to find Clockhouse Farm after getting in touch with my daughter to look it up on a map on the internet!  It runs on a straight road from the church.   We didn't have any luck with Mowness and Four Elms.  Mowness is on a private road .   As for Four Elms we went up and down the road and just couldn't find a turning or building of any size likely to be it. We also had a look at Mendlesham visiting the church and walking around the village and Old Newton although not sure if this was Newton Flotman or not.  I visited Ipswich records office and could find nothing new but have got a copy of a conveyance .  They actually gave me the original to look at (I  couldn't believe it!) I felt very nervous unfolding it but it was great holding it! I got a copy done,(I still had to sign that I wouldn't publish it, but that is ok).  As with most of them it is is old English so I have sent it off with the Chancery Records to get it transcribed today by the same lady who did the will.
I will let you know if it throws up anything useful.   Gayla
Bloomfield/Blomfield/Blomvyle/blunville/etc/Cross/Oudot/Gilkes
Suffolk, Nottinghamshire/Buckinghamshire/London/France

Offline Suffolk Mawther

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Re: BLO(O)MFIELDs - Stoneham
« Reply #251 on: Monday 23 May 11 21:33 BST (UK) »
Old Newton is a parish in Suffolk and Newton Flotman is in Norfolk  ;)

Pat ...

www.slhc.org.uk/recorders.html
Every time I find an ancestor,
I have to find two more!

SUFFOLK - Pendle, Stygall, Pipe, Fruer, Bridges, Fisk, Bellamy, Sparham - all link to  Framlingham 
DERBY - Bridges and Frost (originally Framlingham/Parham)
NOTTINGHAM - Lambert & Selby
BERKSHIRE/then Hammersmith LDN - Fulker
LDN/MDX - Murray, Clancy, Broker, Hoskins, Marsden, Wilson, Sale
 
GGfather Michael Wilson born Cork, lived Fulham London - moved to Boston USA 1889, what happened next?