Cameron/Levy/Marks - birth Query

[Lucy2]

Hi Loz

Sorry  ... the excitement was getting to me - I didn't answer your previous posts.

I have got Iris' marriage certificate and it states on that her full name is"Iris Daphne Vogel Cameron".

How did they get married/died as 'Cameron" when their birth certificates had the surname LEVY on them???

I think quite probably that if you'd "adopted" a new name / or had proof that that was the name you were commonly known as, then "proof by way of an actual birth cert." was possibly not required.     It may be though that a statutory declaration of proof of name/identity, was required ?   (But maybe, you didn't have to go to that trouble, at all ?).

Yes, that "Melrose" and "Vogeltown" business is indeed odd.
(I've lived in both those suburbs, so have a handle on where they are.   )

Just a couple of things, if you could check please ?

*  Iris's marriage cert.  ... is her father Ernest, a witness to that marriage, by chance ?

*  Voyage - Wellington to Melbourne, June 1909 "Moana"  ... is there a "Mr. HEIDE / HYDE" aboard  ?

Lu

[lozzab]

Lu,
No Ernest wasn't a witness on Iris' marriage cert.  Her sister Phyllis was.
There was no Mr Hyde/Heide on the Moana.

I'm hoping that Phyllis's daughter will have a copy of Phyllis' birth, marriage and death certificates and they that may have a clue.

[lozzab]

I went to the Springvale Botanical Garden today (Cemtery)  Adela and Ernest are under a rose tree and Jack and his wife Lorna are in a wall niche.  Adela and Ernest's plaques are very simple with just their name (no middle names) age and date of death.  This is the first time I have seen them.

I also asked at Admin if there was any further information known about them.  The girl was very nice and took my details saying she would have a look at the original records.  She rang me some hours later and said there was nothing further to add.

Adela's parents, Henry and Leah (nee Marks) LEVY, were married in Hokitika (which is on the south Island??) but were buried at Karori Cemetery, which suggests they moved to Wellington at some stage.

[Lucy2]

Hi Loz   

What a pity there was no further info available from the cemetery ... still nice though, that you got to visit and see their final resting place.

I've now satisfied myself, that "your particular Ernest CAMERON" was not known by that name, whilst living in Wellington.    I've re-checked all the rolls and directories.
However, there is somebody else I've gathered a lot of info for, whom I think pretty much fits the bill.  (I just don't want to post the name on here yet, in case I have it wrong.    )
There were no entries on E/rolls at all for Adela.

What is needed now, is any further info Phyllis's daughter might be able to supply from BDM certs (especially concerning this "Heide" - or similar name).     If perhaps there is nothing on those, then I think getting the birth record for the last-born, Stewart, would be a good idea.  (Sorry, I know it's more $$ - but knowing where he was born (suburb/ street) and the name of the informant, will help solve this puzzle).

All the children were Wellington-born (except that Phyllis's birth was registerd at Petone - which is on the northern reaches of Wellington harbour, but is essentially still Wellington.)   

Adela's parents, Henry and Leah (nee Marks) LEVY, were married in Hokitika (which is on the south Island??) but were buried at Karori Cemetery, which suggests they moved to Wellington at some stage.

Yes, looks like they arrived in Wellington before Adela's birth in 1876 ?   As they married in 1868,  I think there are possibly some older children ?    But for these earlier births, the names of parents are not shown on the online index.        If you have another look at "PapersPast" (search on "West Coast Times"),  you'll see a birth of a daughter to a Mrs Henry LEVY.   (There were two Henry LEVY's in Hokitika at the time - the other a "Henry Z. LEVY" ) but I think the birth before 1876, was probably a child of Henry and Leah ?    When you get their death certs. you may be able to tell from that, provided the child was still living when the parents died.

Lu

[Lucy2]

Yes - this is a "white copy" - it a computer generated page.
States - first names - Jack Ernest Cameron
Surname - Levy
dob - 07/09/1905
Birthplace - Vogeltown Melrose

First Informant - Description Authorised Agent - E Heide, Vogeltown.

That's it!!!   (Interesting that Vogeltown and Melrose are not same place!)

Hi Loz

Just a correction here.   

It is true that Vogeltown and Melrose were indeed separate suburbs of Wellington (and that they are quite some distance apart).    However, when I was looking at some old Wellington directories, (c. 1902 & 1905) I found that there had been a "Melrose District" (apparently used by the then Wellington City authorities, for "rating" purposes)  ... and this "district" included many other suburbs which were even further in distance, than Vogeltown and the Melrose suburb !

So yes, Jack's place of birth was Vogeltown, Melrose District, Wellington . 

Lu

[lozzab]

Ok - with the wonderful help from Lu - it is now thought that Ernest Cameron was NOT his real name and he was actually Edgar HYDE (b: 1876 Auckland) and changed his name when he stepped on the boat to australia.

I got Edgar's first marriage certificate (before he set up with my g-grandmother) and his parents are Charles HYDE and Eliza DORKES (? - looks like). Edgar married a Isabel EARLEY, father Robert EARLEY and mother Esther MOYLE)

I can't find a marriage in New Zealand for Charles and Eliza and have no idea what country they may have come from. Does anyone have any ideas?

I have got the birth certificates now for Jack Ernest Cameron LEVY (an E. HEIDE was the informant) and the younger brother Stewart Couldrey LEVY (Informant was a "Te Koroneko)

.....Lu - over to you 

[Lucy2]

Hi again Loz   

As there's been that very long wait from BDM (NZ) for Stewart's birth record (which ultimately didn't provide the extra clue, hoped for), and a good deal of "nutting this out" has been done via PM in the meantime, I'll now attempt to summarise where we are "at".   

Summary

Death Certificate - Ernest CAMERON - born New Zealand - died Victoria, Australia, 1958 -   82 years - (bc 1876 ) :
Wife:   Adela CAMERON (nee LEVY)
Married:  1902 Wellington     (No NZ marriage found.)
 
Children:  Jack Ernest Cameron and Iris Daphne Vogel (b. 1905), Phyllis Raoni (b. 1906) and Stewart Couldrey (b. 1908).   
All registered at Wellington NZ under the surname of LEVY - Mother shown as "Amelia LEVY" - father's name not recorded.   *  "Amelia LEVY" is known to be Adela Amelia LEVY born 1876 at Wellington.)
Ernest CAMERON - occcupation:
(Land Agent - as per his son Jack's marriage cert. 1929)    

*   1909 - A "Mrs CAMERON and 3 children, plus an infant" found on passenger list - NZ to Victoria - "Moana" - June 1909, are a good match for Adela and her children.

*    An extensive search had been made for an "Ernest CAMERON" - born in NZ - and living in Wellington at the time his  children are born there.     (Nothing found).

*    All persons named "Ernest CAMERON" who feature on directories/electoral rolls in Wellington between 1897 and 1922, have been accounted for, and none are "Ernest CAMERON", the subject of this search.

Ernest CAMERON ... possibly "Ernest HEIDE" or "HYDE" ??

*   Two clues, prompted this search.   ( Post  #   24  )

(1)   Ernest CAMERON's daughter (Iris), states on her marriage certificate, that her father is "Ernest Hyde CAMERON".

(2)   The birth cert. for Jack Ernest Cameron LEVY (1905) shows the informant to be,  "E. HEIDE".
("HEIDE" used instead of "HYDE" ?? )
(Note: Also, Mother's name is stated as "Amelia" yet on NZ school records she appears to be "Adela" and on moving to Australia, uses that name.)

*   Searches of Wellington directories and e/rolls (1897 - 1922), reveal an "Edgar HYDE" ... but nobody by the name of "Ernest HYDE" - nor was the name "HEIDE" found at all, in NZ).

                                               continued ... next post

[Lucy2]

Ernest CAMERON - "Edgar HYDE"

Summary  ....  continued

*    There is a birth registered at Auckland - 1876 - for an Edgar HYDE.     (Note:   1876 also matches the birth year given for Ernest CAMERON.)

*    A marriage has been found for this Edgar HYDE (to Isabel EARLEY - 1899) and a son (Edgar Ivon) born in 1900.
Later edit:   No "divorce" noted on the marriage cert which "Loz" now has.

*    Isabel HYDE (the wife), disappears from electoral roll in Wellington in 1903.

*    School records for their child (E. Ivon) have him in  Taranaki in 1906 (Parent/guardian - Mrs Hyde)  .. and in 1908 in Wellington (P/guardian - Edgar Hyde).

*    Edgar HYDE appears in directories (NZPO, Stones and Wises) and electoral rolls at Wellington - listed as a "commission agent" (mainly) and in 1908 as a "land agent".

*    Articles and advertisements (in the "Evening Post" at PapersPast) 1901 to 1908, give much info regarding his business dealings (as a commission and land agent).
                       ------------------------------------

A further "clue" that Ernest CAMERON could be Edgar HYDE, is found in the (1985) will of Ernest CAMERON's daughter (Iris) where she makes a bequest to "Sue BOYD - my 3rd cousin".    (Sue BOYD is known to have come from NZ).
In 1901, Edgar HYDE is in a business partnership with a "Charles BOYD" at Wellington.
This Charles BOYD appears to be the same person who married an Eliza Elizabeth HYDE (b. 1878 NZ) - though Eliza has different parents to Edgar HYDE - she may be his cousin ?
(Still searching for a "Sue BOYD" (Susan, Susannah etc. ) possibly born after 1909 ?) .


Lu

[DotBrennan]

Hi Lu/Loz

The historical deaths show 3 Susan BOYD deaths, but they are all born pre1900, BUT there is a Catherine Susan Mary BOYD death in 1988 with a DoB of 1907 which may be worth following……
…and a Probate @ Ch’ch.

(over to “super sleuth” Lu)


Bren