Cameron/Levy/Marks - birth Query

[lozzab]

Once again - Thanks Lu !!

[Lucy2]

Loz

re:  Arthur George HYDE

Just confirming, the birth showing on the NZ index for above name, was registered at Christchurch in 1873.

Burial record at >>

http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries

Arthur George HYDE - died 16 November 1951 - 78 years (bc 1873)  ... place of birth - Christchurch.     

[So it appears that the birth of Arthur, son of Eliza and Charles ... and also the births of his twin sisters ... were not officially registered ?]
 

Lu

[lozzab]

Oh ok. Thanks Lu. Wonder why they didn't register those 3?

[Lucy2]

Hmm  ... I dunno ?   (Perhaps the horse was in at the local garage, for an oil and grease  ... and they didn't have transport to the registry office )

Seriously though ... there were probably many, many, reasons, not the least of which were just the general hardships, these early settlers faced.   [I've got a family of 12 - West Coast, South Island  ... only the 1st birth 1869 was officially registered !]

Of course we know that the twins had their births announced in the newspaper  ... (I've got the same thing with my g-gran ... but there is no official record of her birth.  ).

Lu

[Lucy2]

Also - I think the Martha on the passenger list with the family might have been Charles sister, Martha - not  DAUGHTER.

Hi Loz

Right, I think I have now "nutted out" the confusion regarding Harriet HYDE and Martha HYDE as it relates to the passenger list of the "Excelsior" (arrived Auckland 1870).   

Unfortunately, the only list available for the "Excelsior", seems to be that which was printed in the newspaper.     This lumped all those with surname "HYDE" together, but as it gave no ages (or occupations) it is impossible to determine just what the "relationships" between those named HYDE, might have been.

Thankfully though, Eliza's will, means we now know who her children were ... and that she didn't have daughters named Harriet or Martha.     

But we do have NZ marriage and death records for Martha and Harriet HYDE (though no apparent "voyage to NZ" details) ... and so your theory about this "Martha HYDE" aboard the "Excelsior", seems to be "spot on" Loz !   

But what of the "Harriet HYDE" on the "Excelsior" (1870) 

                                        continued next post   >>

[Lucy2]

 On the passenger list it had Harriet HYDE being born on the ship on the way over from England. Her birth date being 17th July, 1870.
 

Harriet HYDE - passenger to Auckland - "Excelsior" 1870 :

Aah  ... now whomever transcribed this "Excelsior" passenger list
... or more importantly, whomever added the note to the list which appears online  ... needs a firm smack on the hand !! 

It has simply been assumed, that as Harriet HYDE was the last name appearing amongst the HYDE names listed, that this was the child born on the voyage !    AND that is INCORRECT !!

Passenger lists are compiled at the port of departure !
Any child born during a voyage, has his or her name (or more usually just a record of "a son/daughter born to Mrs ...") ADDED to the passenger list, at the port of arrival !.

So, the Harriet HYDE who is recorded on the "Excelsior" list, in all probability, is the sister of Martha and Charles HYDE.

(In general, the names appear on these UK to NZ passenger lists, as "Husband (or head of the family), wife ... and then children in descending order of age".   Had details of "ages" been available (from the list) for all of those in this HYDE family, then it would have been much easier to have sorted this out  ... earlier.    )

Lu

[Lucy2]

Another interesting thing is it mentions a daughter Mary Lees Excelsior (married to Robert BLEAKLEY.
 
I looked up the BMD and Mary was registered in 1870.  On the passenger list it had Harriet HYDE being born on the ship on the way over from England. Her birth date being 17th July, 1870.  I think they Mary IS Harriet and they have registered her name different once in NZ. 

The Excelsior was the ship they came out on - I don't know where the LEES came from! 

Mary Lees Excelsior HYDE - born at sea -  aboard the "Excelsior" - 17 July 1870 on its voyage to Auckland, NZ.

The commander (captain) of the vessel "Excelsior" ... was one,  "James LEES" ... (seems he may have also have been the ships' surgeon ?) :

 

[Lucy2]

    ... and a quirky little twist  ...

Elizabeth Jane LOGAN who married Frederick HYDE (1888),
is buried as "Elizabeth Jane Dauntless HYDE" ... she appears to have been one of the 17 children born on the voyage of the "Dauntless" which arrived Auckland 15 May 1865.

[lozzab]

Lu, 
That's excellent!  thanks for sorting that out!  (don't know what I'd do without you!)

I got Stewart Cameron's WW2 records in the mail today!

He is down as Stanley Stewart Cameron on his marriage certificate and War records - no mention of the Couldrey.  My mother knew him as Stewart Couldrey Cameron (Uncle Stewart).  It is definately him - the date of birth is correct and the War record lists his children - the names of which my mother had given me.   I wonder if the Couldrey was 'dropped' once in Aust. to cover up Edgar/Ernest's name change or if Stewart did it later?  (Guess I'll never know).  His children are my mum's cousins - I'll have to ask her if she has contact details for them - maybe they can enlighten me?

I hadn't been able to find Stewart's death and mum said he just went missing.  In his file is a letter from him asking for a copy of his records as his were destroyed in fire.  The letter was written from a Queensland address - so maybe that's where he took off to?  Another thing for me to follow up!

Oh I finally found Eliza Dorkes (married to Charles Hyde) family in the census in England.  They were indexed under "Darks", "Dawkes" and "Dorks"!

Loz