Cameron/Levy/Marks - birth Query

[senojekips]

Hello Loz,

Yes, I am a 2xGt Grandson of Solomon (Pinchas Zelig) Jonas, and have been researching the family for nearly 29 years. 

I will PM you in case you would like any further info.

Cheers,
Spike.

[lozzab]

Hey Lu,
I ordered the probate package of Eliza HYDE (Edgar/Ernest's mother).  She died on or about the 20th January, 1931. it helped confirm a couple of things.  The first will was made 1901 (after her husband Charles had died).  Edgar was to be left a book "Household Treasure" and that was all for him!  Her personal property was to be split up between her daughters and the real estate  just split to - 1 quarter to daughter Lizzie, 1 quarter to son Arthur (so this was Arthur George born 1873) and 1/2 to son Frederick.  It appears Lizzie never married.

It appears the twin daughters born in 1872 were Bertha and Helen. The 1901 will gives Helen's husband as Edwin REAVES, none mentioned for Bertha. I can't seem to find a marriage, children or death for Helen or her husband though.

Another interesting thing is it mentions a daughter Mary Lees Excelsior (married to Robert BLEAKLEY.  I looked up the BMD and Mary was registered in 1870.  On the passenger list it had Harriet HYDE being born on the ship on the way over from England. Her birth date being 17th July, 1870.  I think they Mary IS Harriet and they have registered her name different once in NZ.  The Excelsior was the ship they came out on - I don't know where the LEES came from!  There is no reference to Harriet (marriage or death) once in NZ.

Also - I think the Martha on the passenger list with the family might have been Charles sister, Martha - not  DAUGHTER.  The sister, Martha, was born in 1850, only 8 years before Charles and Eliza's first child.  There is no birth or other record for a daughter Martha.

Thanks Lu for directing me to the Probates.  It's not so hard when you know how to do it!!

Thanks again everyone for their contribution in untangling this family!

Loz

[Lucy2]

Hi again Loz

Yes, that was a great move you made, getting the probate file.   Wonderful too that it contained so much information.   

Just quickly ...  (' cos I'll get back to you later when I've read through this)  ...

Marriages

Ellen HYDE  m.  Edwin REEVE  -  1895

Bertha HYDE - Edwin John ASTON - 1896
Bertha HYDE - Reginald McGRANE - 1908

Arthur HYDE - Helen Cathern ? (Catherine ??) CAVANAGH - 1895
Arthur HYDE - Katherine MOORE - 1901

[Zilch for an "Arthur George" :     Take a look on "Archway" and see if there are probates for any of these in the Auckland area  ... might just give a lead as to who married who ?]

I have a death for "Miss" Lizzie  ... will dig it up for you.

Lu

[lozzab]

Hi Lu,

You are good!  I only looked for "Helen" and did search for "REEVES" (rather than REAVES) but didn't drop the "S" !!

I'm thinking that 'my' Bertha must be the one in 1908 - as the will was written in 1901 and no "husband of", where the other daughters did.

Arthur was only referred to as "Arthur" in the will but on the birth was Arthur George.

The 1st codicil (dated 10/10/1912) of the will - says if Arthur died first, then his quarter to be shared between daughter Lizzie and daughter-in-law Elizabeth Jane (wife of Frederick).

Then the 3rd codicil (dated 03/10/1929) says if Lizzie predeceases her mother, then her share to be split between Fred and Arthur and if Fred or Arthur died their share to be left to whoever they had in their will. 

This seems to indicate that Arthur wasn't married before the 1912 codicil but was before 1929 - do you think?

Loz

[Lucy2]

Hi Loz

Still haven't read through ya last post yet.   

But will answer these ones first.

I'm thinking that 'my' Bertha must be the one in 1908 - as the will was written in 1901 and no "husband of", where the other daughters did.
Yes, seems to make sense she might have married after 1901.

Arthur was only referred to as "Arthur" in the will but on the birth was Arthur George.
This second name "George" puzzles me somewhat ??
None of the others (apart from the newly found "Mary Lees Excelsior"  seem to have had second christian names.   I'm sure I looked up this "Arthur George HYDE" birth, and it was registered in Christchurch ??   Will have to dig up my notes, and check.

The 1st codicil (dated 10/10/1912) of the will - says if Arthur died first, then his quarter to be shared between daughter Lizzie and daughter-in-law Elizabeth Jane (wife of Frederick).

Then the 3rd codicil (dated 03/10/1929) says if Lizzie predeceases her mother, then her share to be split between Fred and Arthur and if Fred or Arthur died their share to be left to whoever they had in their will. 

This seems to indicate that Arthur wasn't married before the 1912 codicil but was before 1929 - do you think?
Yes, could be the case (especially as the will has mentioned the spouses of her other children.   There's a 1924 marriage for "an Arthur HYDE"... will add it below.      ~ Lu

Marriage

Sarah Mary HARLEY - Arthur HYDE - 1924       

[Lucy2]

Here's Lizzie  ...

Lizzie HYDE - d. 1 October 1944 - aged 78 years

Buried :   Hillborough Cemetery, Auckland
Area 11 - Block B  - Lot 411

M/I reads :

"ILMO Lizzie HYDE died 1st October 1944"

[Lucy2]

AND   ... your Bertha HYDE took a bit of finding !   

Marriage 1

Bertha HYDE - Reginald McGRANE - 1908

[Reginald McGRANE (there were several !) appears to have died in 1919 - aged 64 years (bc 1855) ]

Marriage 2

Bertha McGRANE - William HARRIS - 1926

[Lucy2]

Bertha HARRIS - d. 17 July 1966 - aged 94 years !

Burial :   Hillsborough Cemetery, Auckland
Area 11 -  Block B  -  Lot 409  (near to sister Lizzie)

M/I reads:   

"ILMO Bertha HARRIS twin sister of Ellen REEVE died 17 July 1966 aged 95 years".

[Note:   Age at death on MI, differs to official record.]

(No sign of husband William HARRIS in this cemetery).

[Lucy2]

Ellen REEVE (nee HYDE)


Ellen REEVE - d. 2 April 1957 - aged 85 years.

Buried :   Hillsborough Cemetery, Auckland
Area 11  -  Block B  -  Lot 407

M/I reads :

"ILMO our dear mother Ellen REEVE loved wife of the late Edwin, died 2 April 1957 aged 85 years".

(No sign of husband Edwin in this cemetery.)