Temple Village Midlothian

[Templar75]

Hi TempleDrysdale,

                            thank you very much for all this wonderful information regarding your Drysdale ancestors, as for archived photos of the Farm I doubt if there are any but I could ask the family for you.

The headstone was laid flat due to the boundary wall being in the state of collapse, I complained to the authorities fearing the headstones would be damaged, they eventually told the man who owns the old Manse to take the wall down for safety.

He will put all the headstones back once the wall is completed, I think he wants to make sure that the foundations are secure, one good thing that came out of it is, when the wall was taken down they found a 12 century Knight Templar grave slap and another with just a Cross on it which was probably a Monks stone, the latter I believe is in the Edinburgh Museum.

I wondered about the two plots regarding the Drysdales, at first I thought he had bought two plots as there is no information to who is buried outside the Church, the one outside the Church I thought he may have bought it to sell the ground on again at a later date, but thanks to you I now know better.

The Plots being 34 and 56 on the old burial map.

I had no idea that Braidwood Farm was under the Earl of Rosebury I thought it was Dundas so another lesson learned. 

I have a few photos of the Mill concerned especially inside, do you have these ? if not I can post them unfortunately a few years back the people who own it now stored Hay in the Mill, sadly the interior was badly burnt due to spontaneous combustion which they had never thought of happening.

Are you Davis.

Cheers.

Archie.
 

                           

[westie77]

Dear Archie,

I wondered if you could have a look in your Temple burial records for one David HERRIOT. Born 1768 in Newbattle he is recorded in the 1841 census as living in Temple, and in 1851 census living at Templemills, Temple as a Labourer (Pauper) and widower aged 83. Can't find him in civil records so assume he died between 1851 and 1854.

His wife was Agnes who presume died before 1841. No idea where.

He is my husband's many times g-grandfather.

Do you know anything about Templemills? We are planning to come up to Scotland and be in the area in July.

Thank you.

Kate

[Templar75]

Hi Kate,

           sorry but they are not on my records if he was born at Lasswade there is a good possibility he was buried there, they normally done this it was if as if they were going home or back to their roots so to speak.

Have you any idea what her maiden name was ?, as stated in other parts of this topic the burial records were very poorly kept forTemple Village.

I have a David Herriot at Temple born 1776 b Midlothian Scotland aged 65 years an Agricultural Labourer, with looking at this he worked on one of the farms either within Temple Village or just outside it.

Temple was a big Parish in those days, there is an old Mill Ruin in Temple but I doubt if it was there he worked however, when you Say Templemills this springs to mind it was in fact the Gunpowder Mills he worked at or a nearby Farm these were at that time situated at Stobbs which was in the Parish of Temple.

Look at thread number 11 there is a map I posted showing where the Mill is.

Sorry I could not help you.

Regards.

Archie.

[westie77]

Hi Archie,

Thanks so much for having a look for me. Her maiden name was Agnes Romans and she was born in Borthwick in 1775. I have the burial index transcribed by the Lothians Family History Society and she is not in there.
I've sent off for the burial index for Newbattle parish so fingers crossed.

Btw I had another look at the 1851 census at who else was living at Templemills and there are 5 households and 3 of them are described as paupers and the other 2 retired/not working ("lately laundress" and "lately housemaid").

So I wonder if it was either a row of very modest cottages or some kind of small poor house?

Kate

[Templar75]

Hi Kate,

             if he died at Templemills the nearest Church was the United Presbyterian Church, as far as living in a Cottage it would have been a really basic dwelling due to being a Pauper, now when he died he would probably have been buried in a Paupers ground with no headstone. Although I said he could have gone home to Newbattle he may not have not unless family took care of it.

We might be looking at David in the wrong way, as his age in 1851 is 83 he probably stopped working and now without a wage is declared a Pauper, no pensions in those days poor souls, many in those days worked on until they no longer had the energy.

Newbattle formally Newbottle means " New Place " the name was given by the Cistercian Monks who built the Abbey in 1140.

I notice his parents were John Herriot and Anne Johnston there is a John Herriot in the 1851 Census at North Middleton but it states he was born at Cranston 1773 could this be his brother he is aged 78.

There is also a Robert Herriot 1775 and John Herriot 1773.

This is a good Site :  http://www.scan.org.uk/familyhistory/myancestor/pauper.htm

Regards.

Archie.

[cheviot123]

Hi Archie
I am very interested in the burial records for Temple Churchyard. I have visited the site several times. I know from his Death Certificate that John Wilson was buried there in 1860, his wife Barbara Scott (ms Scott) died in 1879 at Temple Mill. I suspect that there are other members of the Wilson and Scott families also buried in the churchyard. Hope you can be of help.
Best Wishes
Gavin Thomson

[Templar75]

Hi Gavin,

             I have some by the name of John Wilson but not the one you are looking for and there is no Barbara Scott, however, here are the transcriptions that are on the headstones I have recorded, I have also checked the old burial book, this does not mean that there was no headstone for John and Barbara many have been destroyed over the years.

The information you gave me on them especially Barbara dying at the Mill do you know what John did for a living please, I collate the information I get for the history of the area for instance was the Mill working then.

Another point is was it at the old Mill actually in Temple Village she died or was it at Stobbs which is further up the road, this is situated just up from Newtongrange another mix up could be at Carrington Mill which is sometimes put down as Temple as it was in the Temple Parish, the final one is there was a Wood Mill at Arniston again in Temple Parish.

Please let me know if they are related to you or not, if they are I can attach the photos of the Headstones for you.


Erected by John Wilson Portioner, Temple in memory of his Son
Robert Wilson died 16th January 1802 aged 9 Months, also David
Wilson died 26th September 1811 aged 21 years, Mary Baillie his
Spouse died 30th May 1826 aged 71 years, also John Wilson died 21st
February -----.


Erected by John Wilson, Baker Temple in memory of his three
children who all died March 1844, Jane Wilson aged 11 months.
John Wilson aged 3 Years 1 Month and Mary Wilson aged 1 Year 9
Months.
                            ( Inside Church at South Wall )


John Wilson born 11th October 1831 died 11th May 1871. Elizabeth
his eldest Daughter Wife of  R.H. Nisbet born 27th May 1860 died
7th August 1888 at Miners Mills Pennsylvania, also, Violet Fairgrieve
Douglas Wife of the above John Wilson died at Musselburgh 23rd
November 1911 in his 82nd year. Also, Lewis Douglas youngest son
of above John Wilson born 7th January 1858 died 23rd January
1933, Interred in Willesdon Cemetery London.



 

[cheviot123]

Hi Archie
Thank you for that. I have checked the headstones in the churchyard the only Wilson which I found from our family was that of Agnes Wilson who was John and Barbara's granddaughter. She was married to a George Pringle, their daughter Agnes is also on this stone. The stone itself was a small flat stone located roughly beween lairs 45-49, it appeared that it may have been attached to a larger stone which had been destroyed - could this have been the vicinity of a Wilson lair if one existed? I visited the churchyard last week and discovered that the spot where this stone had been is now covered with rubble, I do hope that the stone was moved prior to the wall coming down.

Unfortunately none of the John Wilson's you refer to are related to us. The Temple Mill referred to is indeed that of Temple Village. Barbara Wilson is recorded there in both the 1861 and 1871 census, I do not know if it was a working mill at that time there is no reference to there being millers resident or even any males of working age. Could it be possible that it was being used as a poor house for the elderly/infirm?

John Wilson himself was born at Crichton in 1786, his occupation is usually given as a Farm Servant or a Labourer. He appears to have moved around the farms of Temple and Borthwick Parishes. I believe that the Thomas Scott who erected a headstone to his children in the churchyard was Barbara's father -  there is also an impressive headstone to one of her brothers erected by the Dundas family.

I had hoped that the burial book may have revealed the burial spots for John and Barbara however on reflection it is most likely that they received Paupers Burials. Are there references to a James Wilson who died in 1863 or his wife Isabella (ms Anderson) who died in 1886 being in the churchyard?
Regards
Gavin

[Templar75]

Hi Gavin,

                  I am sorry but there is nothing on any of them, the burials seem to have been very badly documented many being left out, there are 18 matches for Midlothian on scotland's people but none for Temple, these are 1 for Cockpen 1 for Heriot the rest are Edinburgh.

There are some broken headstones in the Old Manse garden, at one point I believe this was part of the cemetery as well but not sure when that stopped, when I first started going around the cemetery there were about 5 broken stones two I wish I had recorded but the 2 years later they had crumbled to dust.

I have come across in the old book a Lair No 186 with the name Wilson and that is all I wonder if that could be them, but on the old Plan it is not there 186 is not marked down only 185, this is situated on the high ground and far right as the wall slopes down I have marked it with an arrow( See attached ).

Regards.

Archie.