MCGEORGE family

[KC]

Hi,
I do  not have any more on this family, the partish registers do not add any extra info unfortunately.  There does not appear to be any headstones for this family either. 
Can you give me ggrandmother's information so I can see if I am able to add anything

cheers
Kay

[lochfoot]

Thanks Kay. My gggrandmother's information so far:
Margaret Paterson Richardson married Robert Wilson Blacksmith, Lochfoot Lochrutton. No marriage recorded as yet.
Margaret born about 1800, no Record of birth so far.
From Death Cert. died 12 July 1864 aged sixty-four. Father James Richardson, Farmer. Mother Mary McGeorge. From census records she is recorded as being born in Kilpatrick or Kirkpatrick, the names often being confused, but referring most often to Kirkpatck Durham. K. Irongray is of course bordering Lochrutton, so nothing can be assumed. She had seven children. Including my ggrandfather James. Yours, Willie

[KC]

Hi,

My McGeorges lived in Lochfoot too around 1780-1840 and also Kirkpatrick Durham, so I suspect they would know of your family!

Did Robert and Margaret Wilson have a daughter Mary born Kirkpatrick around 1829?

If so I might just have something

Kay

[lochfoot]

Hi Kay. Thanks for your reply.
Robert and Margaret certainly had a daughter Mary baptised in Lochrutton 26th Feb 1829. I have census record noted for 1841 when Mary is recorded as 12 years old, but no place of birth. !851 she is married to Wm Geddes, Tailor, and living next door to her parents. Place of birth Lochrutton. If there are McGeorges living in Lochfoot and Kirkpatrick, I feel there is likely to be a connection. I have not been able to find a Mary born in Kirkpatrick at that time, do you have one? As you will know, women often returned to their parent's home for their first birth.

I am really struggling to find Margaret Paterson Richardson's birth. She seemed very keen to hold on to the Paterson name, as it appears in many records, even her death certificate, for which her husband Robert was informant.
Willie

[KC]

Hi Willie,
First,  there is no headstones (MIs) for any Richardsons in Kirkpatrick Durham up to 1855.
James Richardson did not leave a will
As you already know, there is no marriage for Mary McGeorge and James Richardson on the IGI . As you will most probably know, civil registration started in 1855 in Scotland and before that we have to rely mainly on parish registers. The registers can be very sparse with large gaps in years. There was a tax levied on entries into the parish registers late 1700s so of course people did not have the events entered.  The IGI is mostly for the Established Church of Scotland so if a person was at another church... Free Church, Catholic etc their names will most probably not be in the IGI.

I decided to look for a James Richardson and Mary in the 1841 census and found a couple living in Kirkpatrick Durham. They were the about the right age to be parents to Margaret Paterson Richardson.  James  65 cattle dealer, , Mary 60, Janet 25, John 23.  None of these names are in the IGI

in 1851 James was 78 born Twynholm,  Mary 75 born Parton AND  Mary Wilson  22 visitor, born Lochrutton.   
Could this be Mary Wilson visiting her grandparents?

I suspect that both James and Mary died before 1855 so no death certificate.  I do have about 5 pages of Kirkpatrick Durham deaths printed out. Alas they are about 15yrs old and faded dreadfully.  I will go through them and see if I can work out any Richardson names.

The only way I can see to prove all this is to look for their son John's death (born about 1818) to see if his parents names were James Richardson and Mary McGeorge


I could not find a birth for Mary McGeorge in Parton c1776.  I will keep looking

However after all that, I notice that you said that Mary was living next to her parents as the wife of Geddes in 1851,  so maybe all that above is incorrect.!!

Oh the joys of genealogy, one step forward and two back, mind you if it was so easy, it wouldn't be a challenge?

cheers
Kay


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[lochfoot]

Hi Kay. Thank you for going to all that trouble. I am very grateful.

You will be pleased to know that you are very likely correct. On checking carefully through my notes and records I found that there were two Marys born in Lochrutton in 1829. They are cousins.

From lds

No 1.

MARY WILSON

Christening:  26 FEB 1829   Lochrutton, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

  Father:  ROBERT WILSON 

No 2

MARY DAVIDSON

Christening:  15 OCT 1829   Lochrutton, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

- Father:  WILLIAM DAVIDSON  Family
  Mother:  JANET WILSON 

Robert Wilson (myGGgrandfather)  and Janet Wilson were both children of William, Blacksmith of Lochfoot (my GGGgrandfather)

By checking the date of the 1851 census, we can see that the 22 year old Mary would be  Robert’s daughter, and the 21 year old would be her cousin, Mary Davidson, (now Geddes.) It was my mistake, not checking that out originally.
At that point, I was not aware of the Mary being in Kirkpatrick Durham. I was only aware that Mary Geddes was the Grand daughter of William.
 It does get confusing, and at times frustrating, but the achievement is all the better for that, as you suggest.
I had a very similar situation arose in following my wife’s family. A grand daughter on holiday gave a perfect link to grandparents.
I am near to adding that generation back, I think.

There is a James Richerson born in Twynholme in 1773, so that gives another possible stage to search.
 Again, thanks, and if you can find anything in your deaths list, that would be terrific. I will go on here with my search. Willie

[KC]

Hi Willie,

Pleased to be of help. it certainly gets confusing when each generation has the same surnames..John, Mary etc.  Having said that it does help when I am researching the McGeorge name as usually Walter belongs to about only 3 families, Samuel (including mine) in about  4 and so on. It helps to identify the families quite quickly

I will be in touch if I find anything

cheers
Kay

[Jeansgirl]

Hello, I've found the McGeorge information fascinating but confusing ! There seem to have been (at least)2 Elizabeth Mcgeorges in Urr at same time.One was daughter of Thomas & Jean Nicholson (IGI, C118842)As far as I can see, she married John Bell, Miller,in Nov 1831. The other(much mentoned) married James Murrey in March 1832 .
John Bell the miller (1792-1864) died at Springholm & was remembered on MI in Crossmichael (with parents), and his wife Elizabeth McGeorge (1807-1893) died in Wigan, having lived with her single son William(a draper) and then daughter(census). Meanwhile, back in Urr, John McGeorge (1797-1853) died Springholm &  is remembered with his wife Agnes Seaton(d New Abbey) and children, incl,Robert Seaton McGeorge & John Seaton McG-drapers in Preston.I have yet to find out whether John & Elizabeth were siblings.
My gggm Jane Toolan, nee Bell, b Crossmichael c1829, died Pendlebury Lancs 1884,may have been John's daughter.She called one of her sons 'James seaton T'' & another William Bell Barnes T.' Barnes ' was husband of Wilhelmina, definite daugher of John the miller( m certs),  also born Crossmichael  who eventually lived next door to Jane in Pendlebury. But both Willie and my Jane were born before John's marriage with Elizabeth McGeorge. John, whilst still  at Crossmichael Mill had a son John (b 1820) with  Agnes Brolochan, (word 'lawful' ommitted from OPR) but she later (late1830s)became 2nd Mrs Rafferty in Crossmichael.
I obviously need to see Kirk Sessions, but can't visit Scotland. I've looked at original (incomplete)registers at my local LDS Family His. Centre. Any advice, please, re access to this and other types of  record?. And any knowledge of Springholm and also Auchenreoch Miln ? I can find former on OS map, but not the mill. Both feature continuously in the records I've found.    Thanks !

[annemaj]

My husband is a direct descendant of John McGeorge and Jean Baxter, parents of an Elizabeth McGeorge born 1807 Springholm, Urr.   John and Jean had at least two children before they were married, Elizabeth being one of them, the marriage taking place abt. 1816 in Springholm, I've never found an actual record of it, but have seen the Kirk Session records about Elizabeth which read as follows:
"Monday May 4th 1807, Baptized at Grange of Urr, a child christened Elizabeth to Jean Baxter in Miln of Auchenreoch.   The father, John McGeorge, in the same place (Auchenreoch) had satisfied the Church, for the crime of fornication with the above-mentioned woman, but refused to present the child, so that this duty fell on its mother."   
John McGeorge was the son of a Peter McGeorge about whom I know nothing, and was always in trouble with the Kirk elders over girls!!    As his father was Peter McGeorge, he was not brother to your Elizabeth.       As you know, my Elizabeth McGeorge married James Murray March 1832 Haugh of Urr, Kirkudbright, he was about 40 years older than her and had been married before.    They had six children before James died in 1844, Elizabeth died in 1891 in Springholm.    One of their sons, James Murray born 1840, went to London and became a draper and married Agnes Catherine Irving there, she was born 1836 in Caerlaverock, Dumfries, but whether they knew each other before going to London is not known.   James and Agnes took their family to Austalia in 1877.
I can look at both the Kirk Session records 1806-1847 and the Urr parish records, but it might not be until next week.
Hope this has helped with one of the Elizabeth McGeorges!
Anne