Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?

[Gwenn02]

To come back to the SUTHERLAND fron Addington Christchurch
Isabella and John KEATING married at Mr Sutherland house in Addington (according to marriage certificate) ... nothing says that this Mr Sutherland was Isabella father.
In 1867; in the election roll;  in the vicinity of Addington, Christchurch I found 2 SUTHERLAND
# 1092 Daniel SUTHERLAND
# 1093 Robert SUTHERLAND
both living Cashel street, house + shop, leashold ....
Isabella might likely have been the servant (maybe coming fron the same village in Scotland ??)
On Robert SUTHERLAND from Christchurch  I found further information
here : http://www.flickr.com/photos/porkynz/3146453337/
and  in the NZETC
Mr. Robert Sutherland, who has been honorary treasurer of the Canterbury Caledonian Society since its foundation, is a native of Caithness, Scotland, where he was born in 1834, and was educated in his native county. Mr. Sutherland landed in Melbourne from the ship “James Bains” in 1855, and after being in employment for a short time as a clerk, had a considerable gold-mining experience at Ballarat, Bendigo, and Woolshed Creek, and other fields. He came to New Zealand in 1862, and worked at Waipori, Fox's, and Lake Wakatipu diggings. In June of the following year Mr. Sutherland came to Christchurch, where he became well and favourably known in connection with the large grocery business in Cashel Street, in which for a time his late brother Daniel was associated with him. Since 1888 Mr. Sutherland has been in business as a broker, commission and financial agent. He is a life member of the Canterbury Agricultural Association in which he takes great interest, and has been an energetic member of the committee of that body for about twenty years. Mr. Sutherland has long been connected with St. Paul's Presbyterian Church, of which he was treasurer from 1867 to 1888.
the link + photo is here : http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/Cyc03Cycl-fig-Cyc03Cycl0223c.html

Hope it helps

[Gwenn02]

Next time you ask a record from NZ BDM don't ask for a certificate .. ask for a print out

which is a copy of the original image

http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/PaymentsAndProducts/

not a transcript

hi Gwenn

I think your suggestion of Bansha Tipperary for John Keating's birthplace is inspired!

For both Isabella and John KEATING I have the transcript death certificates issued by NZ BD&M.  Is it worth finding someone to look at the microfiches (I'm in Sydney, presumably the microfiches are in Wullington?)  I have other certificates with errors on (eg obvious ones like 1969 instead of 1869 ) so maybe there's a typo?  In your experience, do the microfiches have more detail than on the transcript?

Regarding Isabella's maiden surname, I have also just noticed that on Ellen Keating's birth certificate (again, a transcript) her mother's name is listed as Isabella KEATING nee JONES .  Not SUTHERLAND or MCKENZIE!

Perhaps it would be good to see the original microfiches for
Death Registration Number 1884/2380 - Louisa Isabella KEATING, 11 July 1884
Birth Registration Number 1869/5079 - Ellen KEATING, 8 December 1869
Marriage Registration Number 1867/4300 - Isabella SUTHERLAND and John KEATING
Death Registration Number 1905/7080 - John KEATING, 7 December 1905

Ruth

[ruthel]

I can see now there's a difference.  But I've been paying $26 per certificate, the same as they charge for a transcript - i didn't know i could get a printout.  Thanks for the tip!  Hubby's off to NZ tomorrow, if he goes to W'ton,  I'll get him to do the search, don't buy anything! 

[Gwenn02]

I know it's a rip off to charge for old document the same price than for current certificate (I mean recent)

Have you seen my previous posts ... re the catholic possibility , + the whereabout of the John Keating in Hawkes bay ? etc....

I can see now there's a difference.  But I've been paying $26 per certificate, the same as they charge for a transcript - i didn't know i could get a printout.  Thanks for the tip!  Hubby's off to NZ tomorrow, if he goes to W'ton,  I'll get him to do the search, don't buy anything! 

[ruthel]

Regarding Ellen Maria's siblings, the BDM records have Frederick born to John and Louise Isabella Keating in 1876 (the 8 yo on Isabella's death cert?) and Isabella Jessie born to John and Isabella Keating in 1881 (the 2 yo on Isabella's death cert?).   I have now also found a news clipping from 1895 about John Joseph 'second son of John Keating of Napier' getting married (paperspast, Hawkes Bay Herald) - if he was the 14yo on Isabella's death cert then he would have been 25 getting married, which makes sense.  So we need to look for 2 more boys - the 16 yo and the 6 yo on Isabella's death cert

I also found news clippings in the Hawkes Bay Herald for the following:

John Keating forfeiting bail for drunkenness (7/10/1878)

John Keating a sheep farmer of Mohaka filing for bankruptcy (14/10/1879), the estate of John Keating auctioning horses and dogs (several days in a row to 7/11/1879), and  discharge of his bankruptcy granted (6/8/1880).

John Keating of Shakespeare Road offering for let a 4 room house on Coote Road Napier, and John Keating demanding that John Bullock remove the dog he has left at his house (several days in a row,  18/11/1884)

John Keating gives evidence in an unrelated court case (sensational divorce case, a good read!) saying that he has been in the employ of a Mr Joshua since 1890 (28/10/1892) but it’s not clear what Mr Joshua employs him to do, maybe John works at the Spa owned by Mr Joshua? And John Keating cabdriver gave evidence at another unrelated trial (12/5/1899)

John Keating cabdriver being bound over to keep the peace after a quarrel at the railway station (4/2/1896).  John Keating being found guilty of using offensive language (4/8/1896).  John Keating, a local cabman, being charged with refusing to take a passenger (4/4/1897).  John Keating was fined for driving a vehicle around a corner at other than a walking pace (11/12/1900)

[Gwenn02]

Your information below seems to asserts the finding from
 Wise directory 1880-81 - found KEATING J. sheepfarmer, Mohaka, Hawkes Bay
Found him in :
NZ electoral roll 1882-84 - residential - Napier - Laborer (not in rolls for previous years probably because not owning land)
NZ electoral roll 1887 - residential - Napier- Laborer

Seems that bankruptcy was common on those days

I also found news clippings in the Hawkes Bay Herald for the following:

John Keating forfeiting bail for drunkenness (7/10/1878)

John Keating a sheep farmer of Mohaka filing for bankruptcy (14/10/1879), the estate of John Keating auctioning horses and dogs (several days in a row to 7/11/1879), and  discharge of his bankruptcy granted (6/8/1880).

John Keating of Shakespeare Road offering for let a 4 room house on Coote Road Napier, and John Keating demanding that John Bullock remove the dog he has left at his house (several days in a row,  18/11/1884)

John Keating gives evidence in an unrelated court case (sensational divorce case, a good read!) saying that he has been in the employ of a Mr Joshua since 1890 (28/10/1892) but it’s not clear what Mr Joshua employs him to do, maybe John works at the Spa owned by Mr Joshua? And John Keating cabdriver gave evidence at another unrelated trial (12/5/1899)

John Keating cabdriver being bound over to keep the peace after a quarrel at the railway station (4/2/1896).  John Keating being found guilty of using offensive language (4/8/1896).  John Keating, a local cabman, being charged with refusing to take a passenger (4/4/1897).  John Keating was fined for driving a vehicle around a corner at other than a walking pace (11/12/1900)

[Gwenn02]

Boat arriving from where ?  Australia ?

I have found a couple of possibilities for John KEATING arriving in NZ - a J Keating arrived in Auckland on vessel Breadalbane on 17 March 1862 and another J Keating arrived in Auckland on 27 June 1861 on vessel Constance.  Could he have moved south for the gold?

Are NZ passenger lists online? 

[trevk]

Hi,
I am researching the Sutherland/ Keating family. I can't add much to what you have found here, but my father was adopted by Frederick Keating and his second wife Amelia Sarah Edge. Frederick Keating was born 15th April 1876 in Napier he first married Catherine McGregor  on 12th January 1899 in Whanganui. He then married Amelia Sarah Edge on the 10th December 1918 at Westport. He owned Dawson's Hotel in Reefton and died there on 13th January 1939. I only have back to William Keating and Mary/Ellen Collins on the Keating side but know nothing about them. On the Sutherland side I couldn't find any info past Louisa Isabella Sutherland, so was very interested and confussed by the info on her death cert naming her parents as McKenzie, would love to hear if you have got any more info on this.

Trev

[ruthel]

Hello cousin!
There are 3 different maiden names given for Isabella - Sutherland, Jones and McKenzie.  Her own marriage transcript clearly says her maiden name is Sutherland but her own death transcript says Mckenzie, and the informant is her brother Francis McKenzie of Tuke Tuke Station so McKenzie is probably the right one. The birth transcript for Ellen Maria Keating (Frederick's eldest sister) says her mother's maiden name is Jones. The  marriage certificate for Ellen Maria says her mother's maiden name was Sutherland.  Ellen Maria's death certificate also says Isabella's maiden name was Jones.   The Sutherland may have come from her having been a domestic servant for a Mr Sutherland of Addington from whose home she married.  The Jones - ??!!

Do you know the names of the other siblings of Ellen Maria (b1869) and Frederick (b 1876)?  There was John Joseph born 1870/71 and Jessie Isabella born 1881.  There was a son born in 1868/69, and a son born around 1878/79 but we haven't traced their names.

There is also some interesting information about John Keating, which Gwenn02 has discovered.  Seems he and his sister migrated to Melbourne in the 1850s.  The sister married and migrated on to the USA but returned home to Bansha Tipperary Ireland first.  That family always thought John Keating died in Australia, however we know that he was in NZ by Jan 1867 because that's when he married, and went on to have a family before dying in 1905