Author Topic: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?  (Read 22952 times)

Offline Gwenn02

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 27 June 09 10:01 BST (UK) »
I have more information today regarding William Hastings

it seems (according to NZ newspaper at the time) he has been declared bankrupt

It might have motivated his return from Napier to Southland ?!!

my source :

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=HBH18910810.2.11.4&srpos=1&e=-------10--1----2%22william+hastings+jones%22-all

GILLIES (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD (INV/../..);   
MACRAE (ROC/Duirinish, Lochalsh/..);   
MCKENZIE (ROC/Applecross (Milton)/..);   
MCLENNAN  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MCLEOD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MOFFAT CUL/Alston, Penrith/..);
JONES (Menzies Ferry, NZ, Monmoutshire, Wales, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Australia)
McPike (Melbourne, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Derry)

Offline ruthel

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #28 on: Monday 29 June 09 05:17 BST (UK) »
Not a piece of family history that has been handed on down . . . !
LAVERY Hugh, from Armagh to Vic Australia in 1861
CHAPMAN William and Elizabeth née HOPE, arrived in South Australia before 1842 from ?
MARKS Augustus Gustave, born 1858 Bergen Norway, arrived Port Augusta South Australia before 1885

Offline Gwenn02

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #29 on: Monday 29 June 09 05:22 BST (UK) »
Not a piece of family history that has been handed on down . . . !

Me neither ... lol
GILLIES (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD (INV/../..);   
MACRAE (ROC/Duirinish, Lochalsh/..);   
MCKENZIE (ROC/Applecross (Milton)/..);   
MCLENNAN  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MCLEOD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MOFFAT CUL/Alston, Penrith/..);
JONES (Menzies Ferry, NZ, Monmoutshire, Wales, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Australia)
McPike (Melbourne, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Derry)

Offline Gwenn02

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #30 on: Monday 29 June 09 05:35 BST (UK) »
Ruthel there is few information re- Jones in 'Paperpast' website ... I found Mary Ann JONES obituary and also what her son Philip James and daughter in law Alice published in the newspaper when she died (nice moving text)

will retrieve the link if you want

Also it seems there have been a court 'dispute' between Alice JONES (daughter in law) and Mary Ann  estate executors ...
GILLIES (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD (INV/../..);   
MACRAE (ROC/Duirinish, Lochalsh/..);   
MCKENZIE (ROC/Applecross (Milton)/..);   
MCLENNAN  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MCLEOD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MOFFAT CUL/Alston, Penrith/..);
JONES (Menzies Ferry, NZ, Monmoutshire, Wales, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Australia)
McPike (Melbourne, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Derry)


Offline ruthel

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 23 July 09 19:58 BST (UK) »
Gwenn

so sorry, i seem to have missed your posting, yes I'd love to see the link, anything on court dispute too! 

ruth
LAVERY Hugh, from Armagh to Vic Australia in 1861
CHAPMAN William and Elizabeth née HOPE, arrived in South Australia before 1842 from ?
MARKS Augustus Gustave, born 1858 Bergen Norway, arrived Port Augusta South Australia before 1885

Offline Gwenn02

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 06 August 09 11:53 BST (UK) »
Sorry I have been busy lately


below is the link


http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ME18941019.2.18.1&srpos=7&e=-------10-PubMetaME-1----0Mary+Ann+JONES-all

HOwever I don"t know the outcome of the case court

GILLIES (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD (INV/../..);   
MACRAE (ROC/Duirinish, Lochalsh/..);   
MCKENZIE (ROC/Applecross (Milton)/..);   
MCLENNAN  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MCLEOD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MOFFAT CUL/Alston, Penrith/..);
JONES (Menzies Ferry, NZ, Monmoutshire, Wales, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Australia)
McPike (Melbourne, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Derry)

Offline ruthel

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 05:09 BST (UK) »
Hi Gwenn

Returning to Isabella SUTHERLAND (domestic servant, spinster , aged 22) who married John KEATING (farmer, bachelor, aged 26) at Mr Sutherland's house at Addington on 8 January 1867 . . .

Have you found any more on this couple, the parents of Ellen Maria?  I would very much like to find out about when and how Isabella and John Keating came to New Zealand

I have obtained a death cert for Louisa Isabella KEATING who died 11 July 1884 and was buried at Napier Cemetery (see previous post by Tiffaney on 8 March 2009).  I am not sure this is the right one . . . but it might be . . . what do you think?

The rest of the information on the certificate is as follows: died at Napier of puerperal fever for 16 days, aged 39, born Cawthronshire, resident in NZ for 17 years, daughters aged 15 and 2, sons aged 16 and 14 and 8 and 6, mother was Janet McKENZIE nee McLEOD, father was Francis McKENZIE, married at age 22 at Canterbury to John KEATING.

Some details match information we know - all the marriage information is consistent with the marriage certificate, and both death and marriage certificates point to her having been born in 1845
But there are some difficulties - for a start, this one is Louisa Isabella, not just Isabella.  Her parents are McKenzie rather than Sutherland while her marriage cert to John Keating says she is a spinster. And even google doesn't know what Cawthronshire is!

The death cert indicates she arrived in NZ in 1866/67 aged 22 so she would have arrived just before she married John Keating

As for the children information, NZ BDM website has Frederick born to John and Louise Isabella Keating in 1876 (the 8 yo on the death cert?) and Isabella Jessie born to John and Isabella Keating in 1881 (the 2 yo on the death cert?) and also has Ellen in 1869. But no other likely ones I think.

Ruth
LAVERY Hugh, from Armagh to Vic Australia in 1861
CHAPMAN William and Elizabeth née HOPE, arrived in South Australia before 1842 from ?
MARKS Augustus Gustave, born 1858 Bergen Norway, arrived Port Augusta South Australia before 1885

Offline Gwenn02

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 07:29 BST (UK) »
No I've been busy with work and I haven't search toward Isabella Sutherland roots
few comments and thoughts

Yes it might be the right one at my opinion too many coincidences

Isabella KEATING - the marriage certificate says Isabella SUTHERLAND married John KEATING .. it doesn"t say that Mr Sutherland his her father ... maybe he is her employer and there is a mistake in the record ???? ... I will check Wise directory and electoral rolls on microfilm at the city library for these names at Addington tomorrow

Cawthron is a city near Leeds ... maybe (it's a long shot) worth to try to search census records for this town (will check on Ancestry)

Why Napier ????... strange she went up north ???  (strange coincidence also that her daughter and Williams went north also few year later)

It was common to new migrant to married straight away after arriving to NZ (I have few cases like that)

Cawthronshire  : it might be a mispelling misinterpretation of possible scottish accent by the register clerk ... .. What about give a try for Cromartyshire or even Clackmannanshire
GILLIES (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MACDONALD (INV/../..);   
MACRAE (ROC/Duirinish, Lochalsh/..);   
MCKENZIE (ROC/Applecross (Milton)/..);   
MCLENNAN  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MCLEOD  (ROC/Applecross/..);   
MOFFAT CUL/Alston, Penrith/..);
JONES (Menzies Ferry, NZ, Monmoutshire, Wales, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Australia)
McPike (Melbourne, Inglewood, Pleasant Creek, Derry)

Offline ruthel

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Re: Sutherlands in Christchurch 1860 +?
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 15 September 09 09:01 BST (UK) »
Aah, yes, WORK!!  gets in the way of fun things!  Thanks for your response. 

I also have the death cert for John KEATING, died 7 December 1905 at Hospital for Mental Diseases Wellington, Coroners Inquest Verdict of Jury Death from Senile Decay, aged 67, born Banshee Tipperary, Ireland, lived in NZ 45 years, occupation Cab Driver, Buried Napier, 2 daughters and 3 sons ages not recorded, mother Mary KEATING nee COLLINS, father William KEATING, married to Isabella Sutherland at Christchurch aged 26

So those marriage details agree with the marriage cert.  The death cert implies he was born 1838 and came to NZ in 1860 aged 22.  Maybe one son had died?

Google maps also can't find a place called Banshee but there are many other family history sites referring to that place so I guess it has been re-named

and his death cert says her maiden name was SUTHERLAND . . .
LAVERY Hugh, from Armagh to Vic Australia in 1861
CHAPMAN William and Elizabeth née HOPE, arrived in South Australia before 1842 from ?
MARKS Augustus Gustave, born 1858 Bergen Norway, arrived Port Augusta South Australia before 1885