William Thomas Dickenson c1769-1828

[willow154]

Hi everyone,
I've just been reading up about PROB 37 cases -
Causes - case or lawsuit

Now, I hope this is right - feel free to disagree if you think otherwise (I'm here to learn, too)
 As I understand it, if you find a name in PROB 37  this establishes that there were exhibits in the case - could be wills, certificates, private diaries, account books, newspaper accounts, bibles, etc.
 See:
www.rootschat.com/links/05vv

Paulene

[SKy1]

hi, Pauline , and others  my ancestor who was a dyer was a William Lambert , born 1818   in every census bar one he is in the poor part of nottingham the narrow marsh, , his occupation is a  dyer of lace , the  bar one is  in 1871 when he is a news agent in Drury lane, the following census he is back as a dyer .

 Ive followed it through and it is the same William  , so reading what you said about dyers working an apprentice  made me wonder if he was on a good wage .And if so why he was in the narrow marsh .

 Ive not followed him back further than the ancestry site, which is  1841,  so would not know whether his father was a dyer also

[willow154]

Hi SKy1,
Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back to you - I've been trying to get my husband interested in watching 'Coal House' - where three families from today go back to living in miner's cottages in Wales, as in the 1920s. Seems to be taking interest
Anyway, back to your ancestors - William Lambert's father may be William Lambert married to Sarah, according to my cd. They were living in Knob Yard, Narrow Marsh, when their son was born - William is described as labourer. (I might have the wrong one, though).
Knob Yard is a couple of streets/yards away from where my husband's ancestors lived from the late 1600s onwards. They moved away from there in the late 1830s/40s when the area started filling up. They were silk framework knitters, but did other things. too. One, Joseph Richards was the constable in the Narrow Marsh area just just after the 'watch and ward' period in the 1810s.
The area only got bad after the 1850s, so if your family were there earlier they would have known a different Narrow Marsh; and because it was their home, decided to stay in the community they knew. I was talking to a lady whose family originated from an area near there, and she said that although it was a bit congested, etc - everyone looked out for on another and knew each other.
Have a look at this early map of Nottingham and you will see that up to about 1830 it was totally different - orchards, gardens, etc. Beacause of the restriction of building on the meadow area around Nottingham all the available inner city areas were built upon and that is why the landlords had to build on the available areas inside the city, to accomodate the growing number of workers migrating into the city.
www.rootschat.com/links/05w1
I you look at these two sites it explains why the dyers chose to work in that area:
www.rootschat.com/links/05w2
www.rootschat.com/links/05o2
Hope this helps you understand why your ancestors chose to live and stay in that particular area.
Bye for now,
Paulene

[willow154]

Thought you might find this one useful, too, SKye1:
www.rootschat.com/links/05w3

[Red_Fred]

Hi Sheila, Pauline, Sky 1, et al

I think its time to consider closing this fantastic thread now and perhaps open some new ones to take several matters forward.

The marital conundrum involving Isaiah Clarke and Charlotte Chappell (nee Richards) is worthy of pursuit in a separate thread which I will open

The WTD issue is still ongoing. I will open a thread in the London bit of the site to ask e.g. can anyone confirm the WTD of Shoreditch was a dyer. And Paulene is awaiting the book, which may provide information on the old dyer.  Shall we keep this thread open to cover your enquiries on this Paulene ?

Sky1 - do you fancy opening a thread relating to William Lambert ?

As I'm fairly new to Roots Chat (what a brilliant site) please let me know if my proposal is sound or whether there are better options to proceed.

Once again thank you all so much for your input so far.  One of my long standing brickwalls - the origins of the dear old (Cockney !!??) Dyer, William Thomas Dickenson, my great great great grandad, has, thanks to you guys, been pretty well demolished.  His name echoed down the years - some of my late grandad's long dead sisters had "Dickenson" as one of their middle names so the old man was remembered with pride, I trust, by that generation - despite the probable traumas of the Mary Whiley affair !  Can't help wondering what the first Mary Dickenson thought about the affair though - assuming she was the lady who ended her days at Richmond Hill !

Malc

[willow154]

Hi Malc,
I can understand why you feel it might be a good idea to 'complete' or lock the thread. I've done this in the past, but probably to help rootschat in some ways. However, I've noticed that sometimes a complete surprise can turn up many months down the line if it is left open. Someone new to rootschat, or even doing a web search, can come upon the thread with some startling revelations.
I can also see why posting a new thread on the London board might help you find the information about the family in London - it gives those near resources a chance to check information they may have picked up in the past or maybe SKS may offer to look at one of the places/archives there. Plus, also brings new ideas and blood into the discussions/searches - always welcome.
I don't mind either way, Malc, as I can always pm the info to you - lets see what Sheila thinks.
I have to confess I'm curious to know whether you might pursue the PROB 37 thing, Malc. But that will come up on the Isaiah Clarke and Charlotte Chappell thread, won't it. I will watch with interest, Malc!
Let's see what Sheila thinks re this one.
Paulene

SKy1,
If you don't want to open a thread on William Lambert I'm happy to help you out, if I can - just contact me by pm.
Paulene

[Dizzifish]

Hello all…

I think you both have valid points.
I think because of the length of the thread it has become a bit difficult to follow but I also agree with Paulene that you never know who or what information will turn up later – I always keep in mind a lot of past posts I have tried to help on and I try and pass on any relevant family data I come across.
Not long ago I helped a rootschatter who’s relative who was a framesmith in Nottingham, he was later found in Derby and while browsing the old Derbyshire record office catalogue came across a reference for his Will, it wasn’t included in the listing of Wills they hold but was in a bundle of documents from a solicitors office that had been deposited with them……so you never know what might turn up!
I think you have to do what you feel comfortable with Malc; if you start a new post you could always put the link back to this thread to save any duplication?

Sheila.

[Red_Fred]

Thanks for your thoughts and advice ladies

I will keep this thread open, but see if I can get it moved from the "look-up requests" bit - I have been told that I cannot attach a the photograph of Ludgates as the thread is on a "Look-up Board".

Next step will be a thread on the London section for WTD and a new thread on the Nottingham section for Isaiah Clarke and Charlotte Richards/Chappell.  I have dug out some old notes from years ago on marital separation before 1857 so will refer to that to see if anyone can help with ideas and info.

Thanks again

Malc

[willow154]

Hi Malc + Sheila,
Well the book has arrived - I've not managed to read it all yet, but I've skimmed through it to see if anything significant to the thread came up.
It does mention that at some stage Henry and Carey, Christopher Norton Wright's parents, took the Crown Inn, at Croyden. And, Caroline Dickenson (William Thomas Dickenson's wife) died there in 1840 - according to family tree infomation on the 'Wright' family tree on ancestry.
Can't see any reference to Isaiah Clarke. Only one reference to a Mr Clarke, on page 36:
Re: Christopher Norton Wright - setting up his business as bookseller in Nottingham:
In January, 1807, I opened an account with Mr Charles Sutton, Bridlesmith gate, and obtained from him considerable credit, thus extending my business. I purchased a regular stall and corner and for convenience to the market put my stall and stock in an empty stable in the passage occupied by a Mr Clarke, Draper. However, after a few months, Mr Clarke quarrelled with my father and then seized all my stock in trade, stall, etc and charged me £5 for rent, although he had given me leave to use the stable free of charge as he did not use it for himself. This was a great misfortune to me as the money was equal to nearly all my effects in trade. I was, however, obliged to pay and when I did so, told him he was a villain, and that I should live to see him a pauper and an outcast and soon should be a better man than he was.
Although, as I said, I haven't read it all it does promise to be lovely story about a family's misfortunes and fortunes. Christopher Norton Wright was a kind husband and father who paints a picture of a God-fearing, gentle man who sadly loses four wives, but remains a devoted father and grandfather.

So, Malc - what next!?
Any developments?
Bye for now,
Paulene.

Hope this post finds you well, Sheila Take care.