William Thomas Dickenson c1769-1828

[willow154]

Hi to you both,
Well, I must have been dreaming about seeing something in the directories, as I've spent ages looking through both sites, NA, etc and not found it again.
Just before I logged on again I found the marriage of Henry Wright and Cary/Carey Rose, and felt it must be them, because of the names Christopher Norton Wright gave his daughter. Plus, as Sheila said, nothing about them in Nottingham.
After that, I thought I wonder if they're on any family trees on ancestry, etc and found that they are!
And, if you both look at the one called the WRIGHT Family tree you will find out the answer to your question Malc - "what happened to Thomas and Caroline?" They're both buried at Croydon, in Surrey.
Although this does some of the work for us, I reckon we would have got there anyway - just a matter of time + great team work! You've been fantastic, Sheila I wish I could have you on solving my brickwall!
I wondering if the person who has done this tree is in Australia, because somehow when I clicked on the information regarding the 1808 marriage I had been signed out and it invited me to join ancestry via the australian version site If you look at the pallot's marriage image you will see why there was confusion in the marriage register over Caroline's name!
I see on the tree that they have William Thomas Dickinson (Caroline's husband) as being born c 1787 in Tamworth, but I suspect that is because that is where they think Caroline was born and baptised (bit of guesswork).
It's also interesting to see in the list of names in the tree that St.Leonard's, Shoreditch features at times.
Forgive me if I've said this already, but it looks as if St. Leonard's sent some of it's charity children up to do apprenticeships in Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire, so I wonder if that was a reason for his father moving to Nottingham. However, there were Dickenson/Dickinsons in the Nottingham area, so that could also have been reason.
I can see now where the curiosity about the family sprang up all those years ago, Malc.  I was told a similar story about my g grandfather's business (not as wealthy as this one sounds) who my second cousin believed had been done out of his shop ,etc . However, I found a Rates Book and it turned out he rented the shop and didn't own it.
I would love to see the photo of the house if you can post it, Malc - I don't suppose there's a photo on the picturethepast site is there?
But, we still have to find out about William Thomas's father, don't we - now there's a challenge and a half I think!
Look forward to hearing from you both - take care.
Paulene

[willow154]

Sheila,
I forgot to say thank you for the link you found regarding the book - good isn't it!
Are you going to buy a copy? Some on abebooks are very reasonable - not quite so good on the site beginning with a............. though.
Catch up soon,
Paulene

[Red_Fred]

Paulene and Sheila

I will pursue the William Thomas Dickenson question via a post on the London part of the site.

So far as the Mary Whiley issue (!) is concerned my conjecture is this.  The Whileys came from Newton near Shelford.  They were a very poor family, I think sometimes given to wandering about.  E.g. the vicar of Shelford annotated the register after the baptism in November 1792 of William Whyler (sic) one of Mary's brothers "born sometime in the spring". Mary Whyley or Wiley or Whiler went to work in Nottingham, possibly as a servant to William Thomas Dickenson.  Her sister Lydia lived nearby and had married Moses Wright at St. Nicholas, Nottingham on 27 Feb 1820 so there was a family connection within the borough.

Mary married WTD after his wife's death (I agree with you Sheila) and took WTD to her home village where he died in 21 June 1828.  Mary then married the widowed William Doncaster of East Bridgford and Nottingham (a builder) at St. Nicholas, Nottingham on 20 May 1830.  Doncaster was possibly her uncle by marriage (in Shelford 8 Nov 1808) to Lydia Willson, Mary's mother's sister.

William Doncaster built houses in Newton and in East Bridgford and probably in Nottingham too.  It is likely that he also took on WTD senior's dyeing business - he went bankrupt in September 1837 and was described as a "Brick Maker and Dyer".

There is a picture of Ludgates on "Picture the Past" described as Ludgates Close but I don't know how to paste the link (sob!)

All for now, sleep beckons

Malc

[Red_Fred]

Hi Sheila

Thanks for the link to the Nottm University Archives site re Thomas Dickenson's wedding.

Through the link I have picked up the record of the marriage bond of Charlotte Richards and Isaiah Clarke at St. Peter, Nottingham in 1837.

As you know from my earlier posts Isaiah Clarke married Charlotte Chappell (widow) nee Richards on 14 November 1843, again at St. Peters "by licence".  Possibly the second marriage of this couple.

I cannot find the bond for this marriage on the site and wonder if you can help me on this ?  Could it have been a licence issued by the Bishop's rather than the Archdeacon's court I wonder ?

Best wishes

Malc

[willow154]

Sheila and Malc,
I have a cd with the Notts Marriage Licences - it has those issued by the Archdeaconary Court 1701 - 1753 and those for the Peculiar of Southwell 1755 - 1853. Is it the latter you mean, Malc?
If it is, I've checked on the disc and there is nothing there.
Sheila are there others? I'm not sure if there will be, or not.

I gather that a licence could be issued somewhere else, and not necessarily the place where they married. If we can't find it in Notts, could it perhaps be with the Derbyshire licences (Lichfield) or even somewhere like Greater London? (bearing in mind that they spent time at these places, at one time time or another).
Sorry if I'm complicating matters, but in my experience ancestors don't always do what you expect them to do.

I noticed there are some deaths for Charlotte Clarkes in the Greater London registration area. Bearing in mind where the others have found their final resting places, then these might be worth investigating. Just a thought.

Goodnight to you both - hope you both have a good weekend.
Paulene

[SKy1]

hi pauline , ive been reading  through this thred and found it most interesting , not the Dickinsons of my family as they came from Arnold .

However  reading about the occupation of dyer,one on my lambert side of the family  was a silk and lace dyer all his life and on his death cert  it says   master dyer , would he had served an apprentership or learned on the job ?

[Dizzifish]

Hi Malc, Hi Paulene,

And Hello SKy1…….

I was just about to agree with Paulene and say the license might be at Lichfield as when I first looked I couldn’t find it either, under bride and groom’s names didn’t come up with anything, it was under Richards that did the trick.

http://mss-cat.nottingham.ac.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Performance&dsqSearch=(PerformerRole==ROLEI41351)&dsqCmd=Show.tcl

It says Charlotte was a spinster, aged 21 although the age may not be accurate as it may just indicate she was of “full age”? and 21 is also the age given for Isaiah Clarke but his status is given as Widower.

Sheila 

opps just realised.....it was this marriage bond that you found and it is Isaiah's second marriage you need 

[Red_Fred]

Hi Sheila and Paulene

Re the Peculiar of Southwell, yes you are right.

I've seen the entry for the 1837 wedding in St. Peter's register and both Charlotte and Isaiah are described as "of full age"

The witnesses to both weddings are Clarkes - none of Charlotte's family witnessed the register.

I am convinced that the two Charlottes are the same person.  She lived out her life with Isaiah and died in 1870 in Nottingham - I will get her death certificate - won't tell us much apart from confirming her age but you never know.

I think I should look at the local press - there may have been some report of the scandal if that's what it was.  Makes me wonder whether the licence for wedding number two had to be granted by a higher body than the peculiar if wedding number one was bigamous (straw clutching now !!).

Hello and welcome Sky 1
Spelling of surnames often changes - my Dickensons were sometimes recorded as Dickerson and Dickenson right up to the late 19th century.  I have Whyleys who were variously Whyler, Whiley and Wyley. My wife has Irish origins and has O'Mearas and O'Maras and goodness knows what else !

Question for you - were your dyers Nottingham based ?

All for now

As ever, many thanks

Malc

[willow154]

Hi everyone,
So, pleased you managed to find the thread SKy1
I can't remember whether you said, on the thread we met up on, whether you lived near Nottingham - if you do then there is a wonderful index of apprentices in the Nottm Archives. If your ancestor's name is there, it will tell you who he served his apprenticeship with, when and sometimes the name of his father. If he was a Master dyer he must have served an apprenticeship - usually they served a seven year apprenticeship and had to produce evidence at the end that they could produce something to show the standard of their work. After this was done they then became burgesses/freemen of the town. (Framework knitters had to produce their 'masterpiece'). Occasionally one or two bought their way in, but I don't think this was the general rule. Many were by their parents and followed on in the family trade.
The apprenticeship index will probably tell you who were his apprentices, too, if he was a master.
As Malc, said give us a little bit more information and we can advise you were to look, SKy1.

Malc, I spent quite a while looking through the various entries for George Graham Chappell on the NA site - notice his involvement with his wife seems to have changed around 1839, and his various movements around the country. I was going to say I thought he must have died in the Glasgow area around 1842/43 (can't access Scottish deaths), but then found the new thread, so you've answered where and when. Not quite sure whether to put this new information on here, or the other thread, though But, as Sheila has been involved with this from the start I don't want to deprive her of any information - she's part of the team! Nice to have you with us, too, SKy1.

It would seem that George Graham's father was a cleric, who was curate and priest at Ortson, where G G and his brother, Joseph Wright Chappell, were born. Graham Chappell's father was William Chappell, attorney at law; and Graham married Maria Wright, hence Joseph's middle name. I'm pretty sure that Joseph Wright Chappell was a solicitor. Also, pretty certain that Graham Chappell's will is the one on documentsonline - there are some references to some valuable estates being sold in Essex on the TimesDigital Archives site for the year in question, 1834.

So, back to George Graham Chappell - it looks as if there was a court case with regard to his estate (PROB 37/1206 - these might be easier to find than most - looks as if they were pulled out from the main bulk at a later date so filed separately). he probably died intestate, but it is interesting that in 1844 Joseph Wright Chappell is described as George Graham's heir - DD/CH/3/69.

Was this because she remarried, or other reasons? Was the marriage annulled, was there a decree of separation (done privately maybe), or did George Graham form a new relationship? 
I wonder if the answer lies in PROB 37/ 1206.

What do you all think?
Must answer my other posts now, and then I will see how your other post on GG is going , Malc.

Bye to all,
Paulene