City of London Parish boundaries

[macphail]

Hello, I've started a little project on Google maps outlining the City of London parish boundaries. At the moment they are based on Charles Booth's poverty map 1898 but I'd like to add boundaries as they have changed, including ones that have merged, and Ward boundaries etc. I know there are excellent maps covering London but none covering the city itself, and ones that are available on the net that I have seen are difficult to read.
I'll make all maps available for anyone to edit (if anyone thinks that's not a good idea please let me know) but I have said on my profile this is to aid genealogists.  It's by no means exact or finished but it's a start. Any suggestions or corrections are welcome

This is the link to the London Boundaries map, others are available through my profile there (profile name is Tie)

http://tinyurl.com/y9cu4cx (City of London parishes)

http://tinyurl.com/dxo6v2 (Adjoining Parishes)

Peter S

[PrueM]

Hi Peter,
Wow!  You've set yourself a task and a half, but it looks great so far!  I have very little knowledge of the City parishes so can't help you there, but I look forward to following the progress of your project.  Well done!

Cheers 
Prue

P.S.  You've probably already seen it, but GENUKI has some information about the city parishes:  http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/LND/parishes.html#par

[Valda]

Hi Peter

London historically and geographically is very complex so it is very important to be as precise in terminology as possible when you are talking about it. When you mention City of London parishes my first thought was you literally meant the parishes of the City of London itself which had/has over 100 historic churches (about 119 to be more precise pre 1812) just within the square mile of the City of London alone. Genuki lists them all for you.

http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/LND/parishes.html#par

Your map shows the boundary of the square mile of the City of London, not the parish boundaries within it. It doesn't include as most maps don't, the part of Southwark south of the Thames which historically was also controlled by the City between 1550 and 1899 and known as the 'Ward of Bridge Without'. This was a part of Southwark but not the whole of Southwark.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London

Within presnt day London there are two cities - the City of London and the City of Westminster. If Croydon had its way there would be three. London today encompasses these two cities and much more besides.

As London is ever evolving I think you have to decide which time frame you are working from. Genuki again lists the historic Middlesex parishes

http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/ParishIndex.html

which after about 1832 began to be increasingly subdivided into further 'daughter' parishes. See for instance Genuki's page on Stepney churches

http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Stepney/churches.htm

Middlesex 'parishes' surrounded the City to the west, north and east and gradually became accepted as part of London. By 1898 you have the establishment of the LCC - London County Council (1889-1965) which officially incorporated into London all the Middlesex, Essex, Kent and Surrey parishes it had absorbed in practical terms already. From 1965 onwards this part of London was termed 'inner London' and further massive areas of the surrounding counties were added which are now known as 'outer London'.

The best parish county maps are found in the Phillimore Atlas and Index of Parish Registers. It is not cheap by any means (you can get them for half price on Amazon) but absolutely invaluable. Their maps and lists of parishes stop at 1832. If you are looking at the historic Middlesex parishes I certainly wouldn't go past that date. (An example of a Phillimore map - Kent)

http://globalgenealogy.com/countries/england/general/maps/parish-maps/images/114a.jpg

My historical knowledge of London wards is more flaky. I believe there were about 26 wards within the City of London itself which elected Aldermen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:City_of_London_wards

By 1889 with the LCC there were 118 councillors (4 from the city and 2 each from the 57 electoral divisions). I haven't a clue how many Middlesex wards there were before the formation of the LCC.

So all in all I do think you really need to decide your historic cut off period and what boundaries you are drawing - the City of London boundary itself plus historic Middlesex parishes surrounding the City? (even that will get very fiddly just around the city - Phillimore does two maps for Middlesex, one of the larger parishes slightly further away from the City and an enlarged one of those surrounding it where the parishes in size are very small because the populations are/were so large).

This is a complex and ambitious project, as Pru says 'a task and a half' and some more really, and I do think there is a need for something which further helps people with 'inner London' geography, but it isn't easy to crack. Very interesting to see the possibilities of the technology with Google maps - I didn't realise you could do 'overlays' like that.


Regards

Valda

[macphail]

Thank you Valda. What started out as a wish to get a better grip of the geography of the area and wanting to work out where places were has suddenly ballooned into a major undertaking. I won't pretend it will be easy or even that it will be finished but if I can cover an area like central London in the 19th century then it will be a start. The maps I have attempted are just that, there will be improvements and more accurate outlines. I started with the City boundary because I couldn't find one clear enough. It will be interesting to see what can be accomplished with the right resources and yes, my primary aims are the City of London parishes.  I'm very aware of the complexities, and the wider historical & geographical changes over time. I wanted to see if I could simplify searching for parishes, wards and boroughs instead of having half a dozen browser windows open at the same time.

There was a major study (electronic map of boundaries pre 1850) a few years ago which I think is only available to academic institutions, they stopped selling CD's 2 years ago  http://ahds.ac.uk/history/collections/hpew.htm
That's the kind of data I want to be able to access and for other non-academics to be able to access. I won't even get close to the quantities and area coverage they did, but I think I can take a decent stab at it. I have Phillimores Atlas, it's invaluable, and for the City map - I'd just like to see it with streets.  Stanfords map already covers Middlesex & is the kind of thing I'm aiming for http://archivemaps.com/mapco/parish/parish10.htm  but it doesn't cover the City and that's when the balloon went up. 
Finding the right map to work with is the biggest problem so far. Charles Booths poverty map is very good but not that clear zooming in. Changing streets adds to the mix, plus cartographers licence with scale can be confusing to anyone unfamiliar with the territory (i.e - Me). Even a 10 or 20 year gap can mean big changes to an area so you make a very valid point about choosing a time frame so if any Rootschatters have a particular period that would be useful then fire away....

Many thanks for all your input.
Peter Sampson

[DaveFH13]

Hi Peter

The West Surrey FHS publish Cliff Webb's Research Aid, which lists all City streets and the parish & ward they are in. It's primary source was the City of London Directory of 1871.
So City Directories may be a good starting point.

good luck

Dave

[LizzieW]

I'm just marking this thread so I can read it when I have more time - especially in the daytime and not the middle of the night.
 
Lizzie

[Ruskie]

This is a great idea Peter. I like what you've done so far.

Like you, whenever looking for maps, I often have numerous open at the same time as I can never find everything I need within the one map.

I use old-maps.co.uk but dislike the fact that the viewing window is tiny and you have to scroll using the arrows and I can never seem to get enough detail either. There are some wonderful old maps for London and other areas.

I like to compare old maps with maps of today. It amazes me how many of the old boundaries (fields, roads etc) still exist today, even with so much change over the years. Many maps do not have the level of detail I really like - I would love to see a map with a large viewing window, which is easily scrollable (eg with a 'hand' to move the map) and zoomable, and with a layering/overlaying of the same place over the decades/centuries (where possible).

I have no idea if this would be possible for London but it would be a wonderful resource. Each map could also include the parish boundaries and changes in boundaries and streets could easily be seen at the click of a mouse button. I envisage maps from the earliest known map of an area to a map of today - for some areas there could be dozens of layers.

This is just the pipe dream of someone who has no technical abiltiy whatsoever, so I have no idea if anything like this is possible.  Not what you had in mind Peter, but maybe one day someone will produce something like this too. 

[mikew0172]

Peter,
First let me echo the other comments: it is an excellent idea, looks to be very useful and impressive. I am currently extending my family history site set up using phpgedview, building on googlemaps with specifics for events relevant to the history. I had thought about using overlays to bring the experience into the right timeframe but as you point out, the resolution and availability is weak. Rumsey's London map overlay in google earth is interesting though. Not sure if it could be used with google maps.

I do fiddle around with google maps using php and javascript but am certainly nowhere near expert. If there is something I could help with I'll see what I can do.
Mike W

[macphail]

After a very long gap, I've added another 8 outlines & hope to do more over the weekend. All your comments are greatly appreciated. For the initial period, I'm using Charles Booth's Poverty Map 1898 as a guide http://booth.lse.ac.uk/ ,after which I can work on the parent parish where applicable.

I've also added another tinyurl link in my first post, separating the City boundaries & the outer ones

Peter