Early Tasmanian births - William Sullivan and John Payne

[Kells]

I am searching for two ancestors born in Tasmania but have found no records of them. William Sullivan was born between 1839-1843 in Hobart and his father was named William. The only record I can find of an older William is a marriage for William Sullivan to Rachael Beckett (convicts) but I don't have enough info to know if they are parents of my William. William arrived in South Australia before 1867.
John Payne was born c1826 in Deloraine, Tasmania and left for South Australia in the early 1850's.
Does anyone have any info that might help? I tried the TAS pioneer indexes but found nothing helpful.

[tropicalj]

Do you  have anything to  prove he was born in Tasmania?

I  have agggf who first went to Tasmanina as a settler not a convict and  then  went on  to  South Australia.

Jenn

[Kells]

Hi,

The only proof I have of William Sullivan are Adelaide Hospital records, he was admitted there about half a dozen times and on all but one card he lists his birthplaces as "Hobart Town" (on one occasion he confuses us by stating England!).

John Payne's short obituary in a newspaper shows Deloraine TAS as the birthplace.

When you find no official records it is hard to know where to go!

[krisesjoint]

Hi Kells,

Don't know if this one will help. I see there is a Christening record listed in Tasmania for John PAYNE - registered in 1835/6620 but the date is 12 June 1831 parents John and Deborah U

Cheers Kris 

[Kells]

Hi Kris,

I have found this one too but ruled it out because another record (might have been IGI or marriages in TAS) led me to believe that John married in Tasmania and remained there. I'm not too sure!

[krisesjoint]

I noted it was 5 years out from what you are suggesting but thought it worth mentioning. I am just looking at SA records. Is he the one who married Mary DOWNING in 1857? If so he is listed as aged 25 on the 27 Feb 1857.....Kris 

[krisesjoint]

Yes I see that marriage in Tas aged 34 in 1867. 

Tried some variants and I also note John Emmanuel PAIN 24 Nov 1836/7451 Parents John and Mary U

John PAYNE = Mary Ann ROFFLES or RALL 9 Mar 1830/1475

John PAINE = Deborah DUNGWORTH 7 Sep 1830/1498

Kris 

[Kells]

Hello,

Yes he married Mary Dowling in 1857, she was his second wife, the first marriage was before 1854 to Sarah Crane. His daughter Annie born 1863 is my ancestor. Some records have conflicting information for his birthdate, I'm thinking it's earlier than 1832, a bit of a wide range from 1826! I think the one to John and Deborah is the one you found that married in TAS in 1867 (?). The others are a possibility but I've got no idea! I am sure he had no middle name, it is never mentioned anywhere in SA records. His death certificate in 1896 has him aged 70 as does the death notice. But it seems people in those days had a very uncertain age!

[krisesjoint]

MMM I really can't say Kells. As you say no middle name logged in any of the entries. (Yours or the Tasmanian marriage) The age is fair enough for John and Deborah's son. If the other one was only born in 1836 he is too young to be yours anyway, but I wondered if he may account for the Tas marriage. 

I would  be more inclined to take notice of marriage records of age that the person provided for themself rather than the death records where age has been provided by someone else who may not have really known the answer. Second marriage, and I note Sarah was listed as 29 when she died in 1855, so maybe he was older than he saiid he was in 1857. No sign of that marriage so I am assuming they arrived together. Do you have their arrival in SA?

Kris