Author Topic: E-Petition for BMD access  (Read 8372 times)

Offline Selina

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 22:14 GMT (UK) »
I have little doubt of the outcome either.  But this attempt, flawed or otherwise, is there now so I will support it and will support any other better one.

Selina
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Offline Nick29

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 03 February 09 23:17 GMT (UK) »
I disagree, reducing the price doesn't mean people will purchase more and ultimately spend more.

If an item in a shop is offered at a 50% discount and you only want one item does the discount make you buy three and ultimately spend more money?

Probably worth discussing the concept with folks who research in Scotland. I have both English and Scottish ancestors and would have 20 to 1 Scottish certificates images  compared to English certificates - they cost 1.20 each - I buy many more at that price. I have certs for 3rd cousins, ggg aunts and all - very hard to resist at the price.

That's because the English subsidise the Scots to the tune of £1500 per head  ::)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580786/Questions-over-andpound1,500-tax-subsidy-for-Scots.html
RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

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Offline Hodgkiss

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 04 February 09 00:15 GMT (UK) »
I disagree, reducing the price doesn't mean people will purchase more and ultimately spend more.

If an item in a shop is offered at a 50% discount and you only want one item does the discount make you buy three and ultimately spend more money?

Probably worth discussing the concept with folks who research in Scotland. I have both English and Scottish ancestors and would have 20 to 1 Scottish certificates images  compared to English certificates - they cost 1.20 each - I buy many more at that price. I have certs for 3rd cousins, ggg aunts and all - very hard to resist at the price.

As Guy mentions - for family history uncertified images are all that is needed. The time and effort for "certification" is a waste of their time and my money

Trish




I dont mind paying for these certificates. But i think that if they where priced around £1.20 - £2.00 i would be very happy with that. I could buy loads then. £7 is quite steep, which has led me onto trying to get things free by looking at parish records.

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Offline Nick29

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 04 February 09 08:48 GMT (UK) »
How much work do you think is involved in producing the certificate ?   Would you do it for that ?  Don't forget that the £7 includes postage, which is pretty good for this country, and an absolute bargain for those outside the UK.  Can someone remind me - how much do the Americans and Australians charge for their certificates, and do they have a 5 day turnaround ?

RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

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Offline Preshous

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 04 February 09 09:39 GMT (UK) »
£3 of the £7 is for the search of the records.
Preshous: Yorkshire/Durham
Penwrights: Bedfordshire/Tasmania
Blake: Sunderland
Stace: Sussex/Sunderland
Murray: Cumberland
Sanderson: Berwickshire/Durham
Burnside: Darlington

Offline trish251

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday 04 February 09 10:14 GMT (UK) »
How much work do you think is involved in producing the certificate ?   Would you do it for that ?  Don't forget that the £7 includes postage, which is pretty good for this country, and an absolute bargain for those outside the UK.  Can someone remind me - how much do the Americans and Australians charge for their certificates, and do they have a 5 day turnaround ?


No-one is suggesting that all governments do not like to charge family history adicts as much as the passing traffic will bear. However, it is a government law (in all the countries you mention) that births deaths and marriages be registered, so I see no reason why the production of an additional  record of this, has to cover the actual cost of the registration.  That will happen (and did happen -  regardless of how many copies of the certificate have or will be produced.)

In most instances all that is required for our purposes is a photocopy/transcript or scan of the image. Why the law has to treat this as a certified, important and expensive event is beyond me.

In Australia, at least the certificate purchased - also for an exhorbitant amount - contains 10 times the information as is given on an English certificate - for a death, probably 20 times as much - so perhaps it would suit your "customer pays" approach that Australian certificates cost 10 or 20 times more than English ones.

In Australia in many states, it is law that the passage of a will through the courts of the land, requires a death certificate to be included (more money to the BDM registry). The advantage of this to the family historian - for the cost of a photocopy, one can obtain from the archives that have the will, an uncertified death certificate. If one has the time to transcribe it, or the archive has scanning equipment available,  the $ cost is zero.

The idea of the petition is to allow access to the registers for other than "certified" information.  It may not succeed, but I hope it helps the move towards a change in the law that specifies all copies MUST be certified.

Trish
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Offline Nick29

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday 04 February 09 10:40 GMT (UK) »
The point is that a certificate with the registrar's seal is proof that the piece of paper is a faithful reproduction of what is contained in the registry.  Take away the certification, and all you have is a piece of paper which is proof of nothing.  The petition won't succeed, because it would require a change in the law which would be vigourously contested in legal circles.  There's already enough worthless bits of paper circulating in the UK in the form of forged documents, without paving the way for more.

RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

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Offline Hodgkiss

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday 04 February 09 12:37 GMT (UK) »
How much work do you think is involved in producing the certificate ?   Would you do it for that ?  Don't forget that the £7 includes postage, which is pretty good for this country, and an absolute bargain for those outside the UK.  Can someone remind me - how much do the Americans and Australians charge for their certificates, and do they have a 5 day turnaround ?




What. Scan, print, put in an envelope and then send....

Sounds like a hard day work to me.....  ::)




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Offline Nick29

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Re: E-Petition for BMD access
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday 04 February 09 13:18 GMT (UK) »
How much work do you think is involved in producing the certificate ?   Would you do it for that ?  Don't forget that the £7 includes postage, which is pretty good for this country, and an absolute bargain for those outside the UK.  Can someone remind me - how much do the Americans and Australians charge for their certificates, and do they have a 5 day turnaround ?




What. Scan, print, put in an envelope and then send....

Sounds like a hard day work to me..... ::)






No, Locate, Scan, print, put in an envelope and then send....

And if you work for £7 a day, you should seek a better job !   ;D

Seriously though,  I doubt whether the hourly pay for clerical assistants in the NA are much less than £11 an hour, and to that you have to add the costs of storing the records and the upkeep of the machines that produce the printed copy.  Sure, I'd like to pay £2 for a certificate, but I'm a business owner and a realist.

RIP 1949-10th January 2013

Best Wishes,  Nick.

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk