ROBERTS - Born in America??

[devonblue]

I have Fed and Rebecca ROBERTS on the 1861 Census with their 2 children Mary Ann and Sarah in Minchinhampton. They were Hawkers or Gipsies.

In 1881 they were in Symondsbury, Dorset with 11 other children, two of which Mark and Brittania were born in America.  William was born in Devon in 1861, Mark in America in 1863, Brittania in America in 1865 then they were in Devon again by 1868 when Thomas was born.  All the rest were born in England. Their daughter Sarah appears to be travelling with them married to a James Cooper.

Mark Roberts' son also Mark went on to marry Patience Manley in 1919 and Brittania I think married Powers Manley, Patience's Uncle, about 1889 when she was 23.

Can anyone tell me why they would have gone to America, and for such a short time?

I am finally sorting out all these lines but very unknowing about  travellers as a whole.

[tiggi]

Hi not sure if we have contacted before but I am related to James Cooper & Sarah Roberts their sons married into my Buckland family
 You are correct it is Fred & Rebecca Daughter

I have wondered why they went to USA ........ but lots of them did go and came back just could be they didn;t like it there, maybe another thought they made enough money to return and be  comfortable not to have to go back again ?

I know that was why my own Grt Grand father returned although his parents and siblings travelled over many times and finally settled there

I note you also have Wells I am also related to them who are your line ?

They were selling horses to USA

[devonblue]

I have Henry Manley married Matilda Wells on June 7th 1847 Bridport, their son Charles Manley married Sarah Hughes in Offwell onSept 16th 1891, the witnesses were Leonard Hughes and Patience Orchard.

(I actually posted about them before on another thread about the Manleys.)

Amazing how all these families were sort of inter-related.  They are my partner's family really but quite fascinating!

[tiggi]

I have info on Wells family :
Robert Wells b  1819 m Amelia Cooper ( not sure if she was one) they went to USA they had a daughter Matilda b 1851
 but I know who she married it wasn;t a manley but her cousin a Wells and they also went to USA and stayed there

What I am wondering is this I think Robert had a brother Joseph b 1821 Dorset his wife was Eliza I think its possible that Matilda who m 1847 could be their daughter ?
(Unconfirmed)

 This is earliest I can find Family who I think could be Matilda kin
 1861 * Charstock Axemnister Dorset
Joseph Wells       40  b 1821 Dorset
Eliza    Wells        50 b 1811 Dorset
Isiah Wells           18 b 1843
Jane Wells           14 b 1847
Gaius Wells         13 b 1848
Hezekiah Wells   12 b 1849
Louisa Wells        8 b 1853
James Wells         6 b 1855
Albertina Wells   4 b 1857
Joseph Wells       2 b 1859
Hester Wells       1 b 1860

[devonblue]

I know that Matilda's father was a James Wells, a cutler according to the marriage cert. They lived in Bridport then although she appears to have been born in Exeter. The witnesses were levi Thomas and Henry Curme.

I have a possible Matilda Wells aged 20  on the 1841 census in Devonport, Plymouth along with what could be her mother Grace Wells aged 54. No sign of father however. They are listed as Paupers.

Sorry, I don't think the Axminster family is the right one in that case.

[tiggi]

I didn;t realize you had marriage certificate 

There has to be a link as the Wells family was huge and most from Dorset area but moved about west country

I don;t know much about Robert Wells before he left England in 1850ish ,but he did return to Dorset then went again to USA so its a possiblity that maybe its a brother or cousin ?

Think we need to do a little more searching

[tiggi]

I found this family tracked them through census years :

1851 Census Fordington,  Dorchester Dorset,   135 Mill Street
James Wells      35 b 1816 Broadwalke Wiltshire               Razor/Grinder
Catherine          28 b 1823 Dublin, Ireland
James                 15 b 1836 Yeovil, Somerset,                       Basket Maker
Fredrick              8 b 1843 Fordington, Dorset,
Alice                   6 b 1845 Fordington, Dorset,
Sarah Ann          4 b 1847 Fordington, Dorset,
Edward      4mths b 1850  Fordington, Dorset,
+136 Mill street
 Joseph Smith    48 b 1803  Southampton, Hampshire,     Basket maker
Sarah                  54 b 17 97 Teffont, Wiltshire
Julia                    27 b 1824 Portsmouth, Hampshire
Mary Ann            6 b 1845  Portsmouth, Hampshire
Margaret       4mths b 1850  Reading, Berkshire
 Joseph Robinson  22 b1829  Kingsland, Middlesex         Shoemaker
Eliza Townsend    18 b 1833  Chebsey, Middlesex           Visitor
Mark Noble           20 b 1831 Bath, Somerset,                   Tinman

1861 Census Fordington County/Island: Dorset  Mill Street
James Wells    45 b 1816 Broad Chalke, Wiltshire, England        Cutler
Kitty                 36 b 1825 Dublin, Ireland
Fredrick           18 b 1843 Fordington, Dorset,
Alice                 16 b 1845 Fordington, Dorset,
Edward            10 b 1851  Fordington, Dorset,
George               8 b 1853  Fordington, Dorset,
Amos                  6 b 1855  Fordington, Dorset,
Eli                       4 b1857  Fordington, Dorset,
Horace                3 b 1858 Fordington, Dorset,
Emma                 1 b 1860  Fordington, Dorset,

1871 Census Fordington,  Dorchester Dorset,  Mill Street
James Wells  54 b 1817  Broadwinsor, Wiltshire,     widow/Grinder
Fredrick        29 b 1842  Fordington, Dorset,             Gas fitter
Mary Ann     25 b 1846 Fordington, Dorset,             Sister in law
Amos             15 b 1855 Fordington, Dorset,             Son
Eli                  13 b 1858 Fordington, Dorset,             Son
Emma              9 b 1862 Fordington, Dorset,             Daughter
Elizabeth         7 b 1864 Fordington, Dorset,             Daughter

1891 Census Lyme (Lyme Regis) Axminster    Dorset 
Matilda Stone 50 b 1841  Uplyme, Devon,               Widow/licenced Hawker
John                30 b 1861   Lyme, Dorset
James               19 b 1872  Lyme, Dorset
Noah                16 b1875  Lyme, Dorset
Elizabeth          15 b 1876 Lyme, Dorset
Mary Jane        12 b 1879 Lyme, Dorset
Kate                    9 b 1882 Lyme, Dorset
Alfred        8 b 1883 Lyme, Dorset
James Veach  55 b1836  Uplyme, Devon,  Lodger/Labour
James Wells   90 b 1801  Bristol, Gloucestershire,  Visitor widow/Licenced Hawker


Christenings :
Fredric Wells  30 Apr 1843 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Catharine

Amos Wells    11th April  1855 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
 Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Catherine

Eli Wells  12 Jan 1857 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Catharine 

Horace Wells 31 Jul 1859 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
 Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Catherine

Emma Wells  14 Mar 1861 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Katharine


Marriage :
James Wells – Catharine Ryalley 1842   Jul/Aug/SeptSturminster Dorset

I wondered if it was your James  Wells ? But couldn;t find Matilda ,then in 1891 there is a Matilda Stone ? and it looks like James Wells is visiting  as you have marriage before 1851 Census could she be their daughter ?

I found a marriage
Matilda Wells - Henry Stone  Jul/Aug/Sept 1858 Axminster Devon Dorset

It may not be your family but hope it helps someone 

[devonblue]

So sorry, I only just saw this.

I'll look at it in detail and get back to you.  You've been busy. Thanks.

Mind you I always think doing someone else's look ups is often easier (not saying it was in this case, there's mountains of info here ) and sometimes more interesting than staring at your own brick walls!!

[devonblue]

Ok.
If Matilda Wells married in 1847 and was of 'full age' she must have been born prior to 1826.

You Robert Wells (and Amelia Cooper) might have  been her brother. I dont think Jospeh could have been her father the age is wrong but again he could have been her brother.

The James Wells and Catherine family again could be her brother, in fact this is quite likley as he was a cutler, the same ocupation as her father.

So looking at this logically we have a James Wells who has children:

Robert b 1819
James b 1816 Wiltshire
Joseph 1821 Dorset
Matilda b 1826, Exeter,

The Matilda I found in Plymouth in 1841 was with an older woman Grace Well aged 54 so born about  1787, was this her grandmother???

Another possibility is to look for the Marriage witnesses, Levi Thomas and Henry Curme. That might throw something up.

Still need to do a lot of searching methinks!