BBC TV "WDYTYA?" Series 6 Episode #1: Rory Bremner

[Nick29]

The "facts" are confusing.  The first legal cremation in the UK was on 18 January 1884, when a Dr William Price cremated his own son.  The doctor was prosecuted, but he defended the case, saying that there was nothing written in English law that specifically mentioned cremation, and this was upheld, and it set a legal precedent, and therefore the cremation was legal.  Of course, cremations had been taking place in England in Viking and Roman times thousands of years ago, so it was hardly new.

The first cremation in a public crematorium was in Woking, Surrey, on the 26th March, 1886.

[Suffolk Mawther]

Sir Henry Thompson, baronet, FRCS (1820-1904) was born in Framlingham, Suffolk -  he became Surgeon to Queen Victoria. 
Sir Henry was also founder of the Cremation Society in London 1874.
He donated the clock on St. Michael's church tower Framlingham in memory of his parents.

Prof Brunetti of Padua, Italy exhibited his 'cremation apparatus' at the Vienna Exhibition in 1873.
Thompson attended the exhibition and returned home to England convinced that cremation was 'a necessary sanitary precaution against the propagation of disease'.

A number of Sir Henry's friends gathered at his home in Wimpole Street in January 1874 to form The Cremation Society and among the signatures are many distinguished people of that age - Shirley Brooks, Frederick Lehmann, John Everett Millais, John Tenniel, Anthony Trollope and Sir T. Spencer Wells, representing the realms of art, science, literature and medicine. 

Although there was initial opposition to the Crematorium being built at Woking, it went ahead and on 26th March, 1885 (?) the first official cremation at Woking took place, of Mrs. Pickersgill, a well-known figure in literary and scientific circles, who became the first of three cremations that year.

So the first official cremation did take place at Woking as stated by Nick29.

Sir Henry was cremated at Golders Green Crematorium and a staute to him is also found there.  He is remembered in Framlingham too.

Pat ...

[Windsor87]

I think we are clutching at straws here in our criticism of the program.

The point the woman was making was that cremation was a relatively new thing in 1899 as most people were still being buried. She mentioned that Woking was the first official centre of cremation, and that establishment opened in 1885.

What she was not attempting to do was to give a concise history of the practice of cremation in the United Kingdom...

[lyndyloo6]

I enjoyed the program and was very envious of all the evidence they have of their family.

I also think that the BBC should have regular programs on 'ordinary 'people like us who spend hours toiling over the little clues that we have been left or find to our ancesters.  This would make good watching.

Lynda

[Nick29]

If I'd been left as many clues by my mother as Rory Bremner had, I'd now be persuing philately or The Art of Zen Bhuddism, instead of plodding forward to see if I can find where my g.g. grandfather was actually born 

[Comosus]

Very true. The show should be about showing people how to find information that can help them research their family tree. Most of it was already laid out before them. I get the feeling the BBC noticed what a treasure trove of information and exciting stories he inherited and tried to get little details from a couple of places to look like they'd done something!

If they did their research in the order that's it's claimed in the film then they did it completely wrong. The first step is to look at what you already have and talk to relatives. If you notice, they went all the way to Scotland to find that his ancestor qualified in the 1850s, went back home and then found that he was a medic in the crimea (a long with a diary). Might have been helpful to know before going maybe? They've done it before too in John Hurt's episode. They get a sniff of a rumour and ship them off to another country to find out more, where they find out it's probably not all truthful. The second step in research (I think) is just to search back as far as you can using the censuses. You build the bones of your tree, and you can refer back to these if you have any rumours (for example, if like Bremner's ancestor, they go missing and turn up with a wife from another country. Then you can start finding out when/why/where he might have gone.

They also just threw into the ring his ancestor's death year. While it may be obvious to us that it was found via the BMD, it won't be to new viewers. They might be left thinking you have to go to a cemetery or church to find out.

Andrew

[Headbanger Veron]

Actually it doesn't make any difference how many clues you are left if you aren't interested in them, or looking for them..... My parents were family history fanatics, and spent a long time painstakingly researching in the days when things WEREN'T online. They talked endlessly about it, and as children what did we do? Yawned, said "oh it's Dad rabbiting about ancestors again" and took No Notice At All..... So that when we grew up and got interested ourselves, we knew about as little as Rory did, and had to start again. When we found similarly carefully labelled photos, and other bits and pieces, we blessed mum and dad, as Rory Bremner must have done. It doesn't make the job any less interesting, just different.

I also feel that there are two ways of looking at family history - personally I'm not all that interested in tracing as far back as possible, just to find out that my 5 x Great grandfather's name was George.... and so was his father.... I'd rather find out as  much as possible about the way the people lived, the conditions they lived in, what it must have been like to be them. So I found this programme really interesting..... particularly the interview with the Dutch medic who let Rory's dad use his shoulder as a machine gun rest, and the interpreter who knew about his German girlfriend..... it really brought it alive.

You can't please everyone all the time, can you!

Veron  

[Ruskie]

It'll be a while before I get to see the new series here in Australia. The last series is now being shown on subscription TV (it was the turn of Ainsley Harriot last night).

I am very interested in So You Think You Are Royal, and hope we get that series here.

The subject of "common ancestors" vs "royal/illustrious ancestors" often reappears. I understand it is the process of the search that is interesting for those who have a knowledge of the processes, but it is the celebs that will draw the average TV viewer in.

How many people would reasonably be expected to be excited when I find my ggggrandparents on the 1851 census. Surprise surprise, John is an ag lab. His wife is Mary. And here they are on the 1861- John is an ag lab and they now have 3 more children, William, Mary and Ann. And John is still an ag lab on the 1871 census. Their oldest child John and oldest daughter Mary have left home. Oh, John jnr is an ag lab in the same village. And Mary is a servant. And so it goes on. Yawn. It could be padded out a bit by explaining what ag lab's did .... but not gripping TV for the general public.

What I would really like to see is how they made the various WDTYA's, including the bits they left out and why, showing the research they did etc etc.

[Nick29]

Actually it doesn't make any difference how many clues you are left if you aren't interested in them, or looking for them..... My parents were family history fanatics, and spent a long time painstakingly researching in the days when things WEREN'T online. They talked endlessly about it, and as children what did we do? Yawned, said "oh it's Dad rabbiting about ancestors again" and took No Notice At All..... So that when we grew up and got interested ourselves, we knew about as little as Rory did, and had to start again. When we found similarly carefully labelled photos, and other bits and pieces, we blessed mum and dad, as Rory Bremner must have done. It doesn't make the job any less interesting, just different.

I also feel that there are two ways of looking at family history - personally I'm not all that interested in tracing as far back as possible, just to find out that my 5 x Great grandfather's name was George.... and so was his father.... I'd rather find out as  much as possible about the way the people lived, the conditions they lived in, what it must have been like to be them. So I found this programme really interesting..... particularly the interview with the Dutch medic who let Rory's dad use his shoulder as a machine gun rest, and the interpreter who knew about his German girlfriend..... it really brought it alive.

You can't please everyone all the time, can you!

Veron  

I appreciate what you're saying, Veron, but I was under the impression that the programme was about finding people's ancestors, and (to make things a little more interesting) choosing people who are in the public eye.  Maybe as an amateur genealogist I am looking for something different, but to me the thrill is "in the chase", and although Rory Bremner's father's story was very interesting, I failed to see what it had to do with genealogy, because most of the research had been done already, and I think that Rory and his brother could have found out all they needed to know without the help of BBC researchers.

I'm hoping this series isn't going to turn into a "look what my daddy did in the war" series, and if it does, I won't be watching it.  Fortunately, looking at the BBC website, some of the other personalities appear to have stories which will appeal more to genealogists.