Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne

[JustinL]

I managed to battle in to Dublin city centre through the worst snow we have experienced in the last eight years.

The original entry in St. Peter's marriage register does NOT say whether Marianne or George had been married before. The only additional information is that they were married by consistorial licence. Whether that meant on the strength of the licence granted in London is unclear.

Didn't get a chance to investigate anything else.

As for the Pynes of Ballyvolane and other side lines, I have an extensive family tree. There is no clear link to the main family, but I still suspect a link to a side branch somewhere. Pyne is a very unusual name in Ireland; it is a so-called 'planter name', i.e. a name brought in by British settlers in the Elizabethan era who were given lands that had been seized from the Irish nobility.

Justin

[heywood]

Hi Justin,
hope you are now warm and snug. Pity about the marriage certificate.
Did you see my post re Lt Pyne - does the record you have mention him being on the Renown?
best wishes
heywood

[JustinL]

Off to London in a few minutes!

Yes, Frederick served on HMS Renown for five years up to Septembet 1861.

Justin

[DebbieG]

Good Morning Folks   

I have been googleing massivly to try and find some more info on the members of this family,  in the course of this I found another Pyne researcher,  called Sarah,  who has a lot of the Pyne Irish line in her tree,  so I E-mailed her to see if she had any info which might help us.  We have exchanged a couple of mails today - and I showed her this thread.  Here are some bits from her replys to me which you may find interesting (I did ask her permission to post these 

-------------------------------------------------
My main source for Pyne information was a series of articles published in the Irish Genealogist by
HF Morris entitled "The Pynes of Cork"  - Vol 6, no 6 November 1985 (and following issues - 3
articles in total).  Irish Genealogist is available on CD-Rom in some libraries (like Auckland Central if
you're ever down this way?!) and in hardcopy at lots of others.  I got a copy from Kensington Library
in London, but I'm sure there are others - your local library's reference section can point you in the
right direction.  Dr Morris is also a Pyne descendent and I think I saw another article by him with
more details in a more recent IG - in the last year or two?

and

You may find a link in India - Dr Morris's articles have quite a bit of detail about the members of the
family who went out there.  And had a few children on the wrong side of the blanket!

One other thought - have you sourced the Rowland name?  In our family they're quite often the
mother's surname or the father's mother's surname. Eg my gggrandfather Jasper Pyne O'Callaghan
is named for his mother's mother's father (Jasper) and his mother's surname (Pyne) - his brother
Arthur Pyne O'C was named after the Arthur Pyne you keep finding.  But a word of warning -
another gggrandfather Jonathan Muckleston Key after lots of searching turned out to have a middle
name from a rather rich family friend!

-----------------------------------------------------------

So more food for thought there - apparently Kensington Library has a copy of The Irish Genealogist,  not sure where else does.

 

DebbieG

[JustinL]

The airport was in complete chaos. Incoming flights being diverted, no flights leaving because the severe ice makes it too dangerous to bring fuel trucks close to the aircraft. So I did not make it to London.

Debbie - I'm sure I have corresponded with Sarah in the past. She has put a lot of the Pyne genealogy onto the web. Being in Dublin, I was easily able to track down those back issues of the Irish Genealogist. They were the primary source for the family tree I mentioned yesterday.

Unfortunately, there is no clear link from Henry Pyne at the end of the 16th century, who was given land by Sir Walter Raleigh, to Eliza or Marianne or William Lionel or my Charles Horace. Henry had several sons (one calledCharles even), but the main family tree runs through Nicholas, presumably the eldest son, and one of his female descndents whose took the name Pyne in order to be able to inherit the property at Ballyvolane or Waterpark. There were numerous Pyne cousins around in east Cork and some even in west Cork.

Justin

[DebbieG]

Oh dear Justin,  sorry to hear your plans for today went astray.   

Interesting that you had already been in touch with Sarah,  I was going through her website and found the mention of William Pyne (Captain) who was a younger brother of Arthur Pyne of Ballyvolane.  It mentions that in 1783 he was Lieutenant in 103rd Regiment of Foot (King's Irish Infantry).  I looked into the history of this regiment and they seem to have become an East India Regement.  Sarah's site also mentions that he had a son William.  Remembouring that George's father according to his marriage certificate was a civil servant in India,  I was wondering about the India connection and whether the younger William could possibly have been William Lionel?    just an idea

DebbieG

[heywood]

Hello Justin,
sorry to hear about the airport situation and hope all goes well next time!

So Frederick Pyne was censused as Augustus Pyne. I had wondered the first time I saw it because of Ros's Julia Augusta. It makes you wonder whether the name Augustus/a was a family name or one decided on a whim- we may never know!

Am off thinking again now  where to next!
regards
Kath

[DebbieG]

Hmm - still on the subject of a possible India connection I found this will in the PRO

Will of George Henbury Pine, Major General in the Service of the Honorable East India Company of Fort William Bengal , East Indies 23 June 1832

Possibly clutching at straws with the different spelling of the surname,  but I thought I would show you

DebbieG

[heywood]

Hello everyone,

just found this snippet for Julian re Frederick Pyne (at least we believe it is)
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PAYMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA297&dq=Lieutenant++Pyne+Renown&lr=#PPA297,M1