Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne

[JustinL]

Hello Ladies,

I am really quite overwhelmed at the new daily revelations.

I spent an abortive morning at the National Archives here in Dublin. The only wills that survived the destruction of 1922 are well-documented and date from the 18th century or earlier. So no new leads at all.

The genealogical advisor did advise me to also to check Catholic baptism records too. Just because Marianne married George in an Anglican (Church of Ireland) church, we should not assume that she was born into a protestant family. I hope I can find the time to look through the appropriate microfilms for Merrion Square.

Anna Maria had cropped before. She had a son in 1876 who was named Reginald Vere Laurence. George's maternal grandfather was Vere Isham. On that basis, I had assumed that Anna Maria was probably another daughter of Marianne and George.

Now, back to Marianne's will. I did not expect it to throw up so much new information. It's good to see George mentioned again. Was he identified as her brother?

John Burnet Applebee is worth pursing. He witnessed Eliza's will and was also a witness at Virginia's wedding in 1855. He must have been a close family friend.

A quick google for Watts Ellaby indicated more Irish connections with George being a graduate of Trinity College. Hopefully, I can pursue more at this end.

George Caldwell had an elder brother, Henry Berney. Maybe Charles Isham was his grandson.

Off to do some more detective work.

Justin

[Spidermonkey]

A John Burnett Applebee married Anna Eliza Frances Temple Jun qtr 1858 Kensington 1a 188.

They are here in 1861:  RG9; Piece: 13; Folio: 38; Page: 69.  (Sorry I can't transcribe, son has just woken up  )

It looks like he then dies in 1865 (Sept qtr Kensington 1a 69)

[floxxie]

Hi Kath,  Yes, I agree.  He is "living on own means" in the 1901 census in Christchurch near Bournemouth with wife Clara and son Francis.  I notice George Caldwell's mother was an "Isham", but whose son is Charles?

March 12, 1863:
CALDWELL On the 5th inst, George CALDWELL Esq second surviving son of the late Ralph CALDWELL Esq of Hilborowe Hall, Norfolk and grandson of the late Sir Justiniam Isham Bart., in the 57th year of his age.

Nov 12, 1887
CALDWELL-KNEEBONE On the 8th inst. at Christ Church, Broad Green, Croydon, by the Rev. O.B. Byers MA, vicar, Charles Isham CALDWELL of Woodside Croydon, to Clara, second daughter of RD Kneebone, of Croydon, formerly of Birmingham.

You could also have a look at Marianne's death duty entry. The reference should be checked as this copied quickly over a year ago..
1886 Caldwell, Marianne Bracknell (res.) Rowene M HERCY (exec.) 1220 PR W356
This should give the details of how the named people were related.

(Have been working with Justin on his line but have collected bits on this part of the line on the way. Am actually looking for a Fanny Stuart PYNE so if you come across one let me know please!)

Fiona

[Hungry Pelican]

You could also have a look at Marianne's death duty entry. The reference should be checked as this copied quickly over a year ago..
1886 Caldwell, Marianne Bracknell (res.) Rowene M HERCY (exec.) 1220 PR W356
This should give the details of how the named people were related.
Fiona

Thanks for that Fiona.  We are going to Kew the week after next so will make a point of looking at the death duty registers.

With regard to George Caldwell, the index for the wills says his effects were under £200 - late of 1 Lower Belgrave Street in the County of Middx. dec. who died 5/3/1863 at 18 Wellington Cresc., Ramsgate in the County of Kent.  Was proved at the Principal Registry by the oath of Louisa Mary Frances Ellis of 16 Bloomfield St., Paddington in Middx. Spinster - sole executrix.  We didn't get his will.

That's interesting about the John Burnet Applebee connection.

I'm afraid Justin, that Marianne doesn't say what relation she is to George Pyne

Going back a bit - I did find the death of a Louisa Avoca Caldwell b. abt. 1844, Reg. 1867 Windsor, Berks. Mar. 1/4 Vol. 2c Page 293 aged 23.  Maybe Charles Isham Caldwell was hers and he was living under the protection of Marianne.  She does say he was living with her when she first wrote her will.

Regards. Ros 

[floxxie]

In the IGI, Charles Isham CALDWELL is 23 at the time of marriage to Clara KNEEBONE (aged 21) which would make his date of birth c1864 and his father is noted as Charles CALDWELL. His middle name has been transcribed as 'Joham'

[DebbieG]

Hi

I went digging on John Burnett Applebee,  he keeps popping up and I can't help but feel he is connected/related some way.  He was born abt 1788 in Fulham according to the census returns - I can't find a baptism for him in the IGI.  I found him in the 1851 census given as unmarried then he married Anna Eliza Frances Temple (born 1809 Dover )and I found them in 1861 - with them is sister-in-law Mary Eliza Harborough aged 44 occupation 'Countess' born Buckingham Bucks.  It says she is unmar,  but it must mean widowed,  because I then found this

4a. Caroline Honeywood, d. (-) 1 July ma 1807 EDWARD
TEMPLE..only son of the Rev Thomas Wm Temple , D.D. and had issue
1. COURTENAY GEORGE HENRY TEMPLE
2. ANNE ELIZA TEMPLE
3. MARY ELIZA TEMPLE d 1881..ma 1st 1843 ROBERT SHERARD 6th EARL of
HARBOROUGH(G>B>) 8th BARON SHERARD (Ireland)
2ndly April 20 1864 Major Thos Wm Claggitt


I am sure on one of Justin's threads there was a Horatio Claggitt as a possible father of Eliza's children,  these two must be connected surely

DebbieG

[Spidermonkey]

According to wikipedia, Robert - the 8th Earl of Harborough - died in 1859 (the earl title also died then.)

Has anyone looked at Courtney Temple?

Added: looks like Courtenay Temple married Julia Ellen Bird in 1858 (Maidstone 2a 747)

[heywood]

Lovely to have fresh eyes as I am getting very confused with all these other names! I just love  - 'he was a count' etc! Brilliant!

[JustinL]

Ros - would you mind please looking out for the death duty due of Eliza's estate? Hopefully, we will get some clue to George Pyne's place of residence!

Horatio Clagett had an elder brother named Thomas William Clagett!

This web of intrigue is becoming ever more infathomable.

Justin