Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne

[heywood]

a light diversion..http://www.criterion-theatre.co.uk/about.html

read about the White Bear in Piccadilly - 'had become the resort of 'Sporting Characters' 

for elimination purposes only - here is the reference for the pub in 1851
HO107; Piece: 1484; Folio: 151; Page: 18
(nothing of interest) will see if I can find it in 1841 
Nothing to be spotted in 1841- not enough detail given in census to identify the place.
Here is Stephen Alcock in a Dublin directory - so at least there's one person here who can be identified    http://www.failteromhat.com/dublin/public/public1.pdf

[DebbieG]

Hi All - hope you don't mind me chipping in,  and sorry if this has been already mentioned,  I am not sure I managed to find and read all the previous threads. 

Although Marianne & George Cauldwell married in Ireland there was a Marriage Licence Allegation from the  Faculty Office  London.  I can only get the index entry (though it is possible to order a copy of the allegation it costs £10)
06 Jan 1843  PYNE  Marianne  CALDWELL  George 

I am afraid I don't know what information might be on it but I thought you should know it exists,  perhaps someone will know more about possible contents than me

DebbieG

(will carry on digging) 

[heywood]

Hi Debbie,
welcome on board  Isn't this interesting; frustrating and difficult 

Just posting this which may be relevant:

Again for info -coincidence??
 you might have been here already Justin:

National Archives RN Officer's Service Records

Frederick Pyne Lieutenant RN - birth given as 11th August 1826  - Family Search gives Frederick as 11 April 1826 and baptised 11 August 1829 

[JustinL]

This is just amazing. I'll have to dig into my pocket and buy some of those service records. I have a copy of the entries in the baptismal register; the IGI records are correct.

Debbie - thanks for tip off about the marriage licence. I only have licences from the late 18th century. They do not mention the parents of either bride or groom.

Early start tomorrow, better be off to bed.

Justin

[heywood]

Good luck Justin!

[JustinL]

I have just downloaded ADM/196/13. It is merely a tabulated listing of Frederick's postings and his promotions from mate to lieutenant.

It does also record that he died on 29 Sep 1869 on full pay while serving on HMS Royal Adelaide.

His date of birth has been added in one of column headings. On that basis, I must conclude that he was Eliza's second son.

Justin

[heywood]

It's really silly of me to expect anything to be straightforward here isn't it!

I looked up HMS Adelaide

shows in Devonport by 1861 - checked with census - nothing.
Then searched 'vessels' as civil parish in general censuses and these only show from 1861 onwards.

Only one which seems a possibility is the one I have referenced before:

1861 RG9; Piece: 4435; Folio: 116; Page: 1

HMS Renown anchored off Beirut Syria
Augustus F Pyne single 35 yrs Lieutenant b London Middlesex

I wonder does this fit in with the service record?

I had thought earlier that he could be Frederick .

The death is registered as Frederick 42 yrs

[Hungry Pelican]

Hi Kath, Justin & Debbie,

Wow, a lot has happened since Tuesday!  I shall have to try and catch up with all the info. you are kindly discovering.

Went to Kew yesterday looking at wills etc. and if I wasn't confused before, I am now . 

I found the wills of the Arthur Pyne you mentioned on Monday, Kath and his brother Richard Pyne.  They were both from Ballyvolane, Cork, but also had property in Essex.  Arthur's will is proved 10/12/1840 in London and mentions his wife Mary Pyne, eldest son Jasper Richard Masters Pyne, 2nd son William Masters Pyne and Daur. Frances Masters Pyne and her grandmother Frances Masters (deceased)  He mentions he has six daurs. by Mary Pyne, but none others are mentioned.  No mention of George, Eliza or Marianne Pyne.

His brother Richard Pyne, also from Ballyvolane, Cork, dies 27/2/1805 and requests his brother Arthur to build a vault in the church yard.  He mentions his wife Sarah Pyne alias Grove, daur. Charlotte and Niece Ann Dorothea.  No mention of George, Eliza or Marianne Pyne, but maybe too early anyway.

A Richard Croker Pyne dies 27/2/1805 and will is proved 28/1/1813, Master in the Royal Navy and of Spread Eagle, London, mentions wife Sarah and sister in law Emma (looks like Puzzit!),
No mention of George, Eliza or Marianne Pyne - again probably too early.

The Will of Mary Dillman Pyne, 9/7/1845, widow of St. Marylebone, Middx. has a brother John Cox Dillman Engleheart, sons Rev. Augustus Pyne, Rev. Alfred Pyne and Edward Manners Dillman Pyne and a daughter MARIANNE PYNE, although of course Marianne had married George Caldwell by then!  No mention of George (Eliza had died by then) .  I notice the IGI gives her husband as Francis John Pyne.  

On Augustus' marriage cert. he gives his father as JOHN Pyne, gentleman and is living in Hitcham in Bucks.

Am going to Holborn next week to look at the will with a codicil of Marianne Caldwell, which was proved 6th Feb. 1886 and am hoping for great revelations

Regards. Ros

[heywood]

Hi Ros,
you've been busy! It looks as though those families can be discounted doesn't it 
When I saw the lady in Merrion Square and then Marianne's claim to Merrion Square I did think that we had found a big clue but then realised when you search around that the Ballyvolane family didn't seem right. There are also references to the Reverend William and family.
It seems so odd that on the one hand the family are very respectable and move within the establishment yet, apart from Rowena's marriage announcement, there are no other obituaries or announcements to be found. There may have been and not preserved.
Ah well- we will await Marianne's will with eager anticipation!
good hunting
Kath