Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne

[heywood]

Guess what - he's 'Independent'  in 1851

HO107; Piece: 1488; Folio: 241; Page: 76

he is living alone aged 63 yrs. 

After his marriage he is a 'freeholder'

1861 RG9; Piece: 13; Folio: 38; Page: 69

can't see him in 1841

[DebbieG]

Hi - I did some tracking after John Burnett Applebee a couple of weeks ago when he came up.

He went to Oxford as quite a mature student,  John s/o Charles James of Fulham Middx, arm. St Mays Hall,  matric 13th March 1818 aged 30.

He appears to have had a brother Henry who went to Cambridge
Adm.  (age 18) at TRINITY, June 24, 1812. S. of Charles. Born at Putney, London. School, Charterhouse.
Matric. Michs. 1812; B.A. 1819; M.A. 1823. Ord. deacon  June 10, 1827.
Vicar of Whissendine, Rutland, 1846-64. Died there Aug. 11, 1864, aged 71.

Henry didn't marry as far as I can find. 

DebbieG

[JustinL]

Great stuff Debbie. Thanks. I couldn't find anything on him.

Do none of these men earn an honest living? There does seem to have been a lot of money sloshing around the place.

I wonder did John inherit substantial sums of money from his father?

I'm scratching my head trying to think of a common link apart from wealth and locality.

Justin

[DebbieG]

You and me both Justin,  I keep picking up little clues and thinking Ah ha and then following them up to find they don't lead anywhere.

Incidently Whissendine where Johns brother Henry was vicar was largely owned by Robert Sherard 6th Earl Harborough whose wife was Mary E (nee Temple)  ( who afterwards married Clagget) the sister of Anna Eliza Frances Temple who eventually married John Burnett Applebee.

Also Francis Ellaby the father of William Francis Ellaby who is mentioned in Marianne's will married his first wife Martha Floare there - but I still can't quite make any of it join up   

DebbieG

[heywood]

Gosh Debbie- you do do well 

They are certainly intertwined - perhaps just money and same circles!

[Hungry Pelican]

Hi Justin,

I feel sure John Burnett Applebee was in the legal profession.  I think that's him dying Sept 1/4 1865 Kensington Vol. 1a Page 69.  Alfred Green also appears as a witness on Marianne's Will and he signs  himself as Clerk to Mr.Charles William John Baker of 11 Sackville Street, to whom Marianne assigns the premises 'subject to the proviso for redemption therein mentioned' in an indenture dated 4 Nov 1885.  

I agree that it's very unlikely I shall find anything new on the death duty register of Marianne, but hopefully if I can find Eliza's, we will get George's address.

[Turnerm]

Good Morning Folks   

I have been googleing massivly to try and find some more info on the members of this family,  in the course of this I found another Pyne researcher,  called Sarah,  who has a lot of the Pyne Irish line in her tree,  so I E-mailed her to see if she had any info which might help us.  We have exchanged a couple of mails today - and I showed her this thread.  Here are some bits from her replys to me which you may find interesting (I did ask her permission to post these 

-------------------------------------------------
My main source for Pyne information was a series of articles published in the Irish Genealogist by
HF Morris entitled "The Pynes of Cork"  - Vol 6, no 6 November 1985 (and following issues - 3
articles in total).  Irish Genealogist is available on CD-Rom in some libraries (like Auckland Central if
you're ever down this way?!) and in hardcopy at lots of others.  I got a copy from Kensington Library
in London, but I'm sure there are others - your local library's reference section can point you in the
right direction.  Dr Morris is also a Pyne descendent and I think I saw another article by him with
more details in a more recent IG - in the last year or two?

and

You may find a link in India - Dr Morris's articles have quite a bit of detail about the members of the
family who went out there.  And had a few children on the wrong side of the blanket!

One other thought - have you sourced the Rowland name?  In our family they're quite often the
mother's surname or the father's mother's surname. Eg my gggrandfather Jasper Pyne O'Callaghan
is named for his mother's mother's father (Jasper) and his mother's surname (Pyne) - his brother
Arthur Pyne O'C was named after the Arthur Pyne you keep finding.  But a word of warning -
another gggrandfather Jonathan Muckleston Key after lots of searching turned out to have a middle
name from a rather rich family friend!

-----------------------------------------------------------

So more food for thought there - apparently Kensington Library has a copy of The Irish Genealogist,  not sure where else does.

 

DebbieG

Dear Debbie G
My ggggrandfather was Jonathan Muckeston Key - I read on a web sit or history on line or some where that he was left some money in Mr Muckestons will as he was his godson.  If i have it right he married Susanna Birch who had Mary Sophia Key.  She married Walter Augustus Hewitt - they had Esa Mau Hewitt who married Rev. John Carpenter Turner who had Claud William Carpenter Turner he married Jean Balfour Hutchings who had Peter Carpenter Turner who had me!!!  Where to you fit in
Look forward to hearing from you
Mark Carpenter Turner

[DebbieG]

I have replied to Mark by PM to stop this thread from getting more confusing than it already is   

DebbieG

[JustinL]

I feel sure John Burnett Applebee was in the legal profession.  I think that's him dying Sept 1/4 1865 Kensington Vol. 1a Page 69.  Alfred Green also appears as a witness on Marianne's Will and he signs  himself as Clerk to Mr.Charles William John Baker of 11 Sackville Street, to whom Marianne assigns the premises 'subject to the proviso for redemption therein mentioned' in an indenture dated 4 Nov 1885.  

Ros, I had the same suspicion regarding JBA. However, I can't help thinking that he would have stated his profession as lawyer (or something) in the census, if that were the case. I wouldn't rule out that he had studied Divinity or Theology at Oxford.

Debbie - I guess you've already tried to find out more about Charles James Applebee.

11 Sackville Street was the address of Watkins & Hooper, solicitors. William Watkins was one of the executors nominated by Eliza in her will.

Justin