Author Topic: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne  (Read 33279 times)

Offline Hungry Pelican

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Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« on: Sunday 01 February 09 22:45 GMT (UK) »
I happened to come across someone researching The Caldwells (I think it was August 2008) and they mentioned that Marianne Caldwell was previously married to William Lionel Pyne.  We have been searching for him for years!  In the 1881 census, Marianne Caldwell was living with her daughter, Rowena Maria Hercy (nee Pyne).  William Lionel Pyne's other children are Julia Augusta Pyne and William Rowland Pyne.  Has anybody got any records of William Lionel Pyne - he is my husband's 3rd great grandfather?  Marianne Caldwell died 20/12/1885 in Bray Berks.

Offline PaulineJ

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Re: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 01 February 09 22:55 GMT (UK) »
The 1881 census would give us her age, and show her daughters details too to track back...

http://www.familyhistoryonline.net/index/search/results.pl?cl=TGroup&gc=11&gr=39125&ds=224&zt=t
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Offline PaulineJ

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Re: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 February 09 23:00 GMT (UK) »
what date & place have you for "Julia Augusta Pyne and William Rowland Pyne"?

Pauline
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Online heywood

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Re: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« Reply #3 on: Monday 02 February 09 00:10 GMT (UK) »
earlier threads:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,322249.15.html

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,271110.0.html

I had begun to try to make sense of this family and then thought it easier if we have other people's hard work to look at - not that it helps much!

Looks very complicated as it is thought that Marianne was a Pyne (maiden name)

Family Search has these christenings:

Julia Augusta b 2 June 1836 christening 18 October 1838
parents: John Pyne and Mary Anne

John Rowland Lionel Pyne b 15 Dece 1837 christening 18 October 1838
parents: John Pyne and Mary ANn

Saint Luke's Chelsea both extracted from records.

So somewhere there is some misinformation by the looks of it.

regards
heywood


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Online heywood

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Re: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« Reply #4 on: Monday 02 February 09 00:34 GMT (UK) »
you probably have Julia's marriage and census details

here she is in 1871 RG10; Piece: 790; Folio: 78; Page: 37 with husband Edward Miller, a retired Naval Captain.

I suppose that this is where the difficulties in finding them occurs- military families?
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Online heywood

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Re: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« Reply #5 on: Monday 02 February 09 00:45 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if the John Rowland Lionel Pyne in Family Search becomes your William Rowland Pyne

1871 RG10; Piece: 175; Folio: 24; Page: 39 - William R Pyne born Brighton.

From memory of the other threads, if these are all the same family, Mary Ann/Marianne was having them around the same time and without doing the maths or referring back- would that be possible? They all seem to be born Brighton though- even though none appear in the indexes  ???
They do seem though to be very respectable so you couldn't imagine that there are any shenanigans going on  :o

Have you tried any military or naval records for William Lionel Pyne?
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Offline Hungry Pelican

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Re: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« Reply #6 on: Monday 02 February 09 01:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Sorry to be so slow in replying - I'm new to this! Thank you so much for replying.  I'm grateful for any input.
 I was always baffled by the IGI record of Julia Augusta Pyne being the daughter of John Pyne and Mary Ann, baptised 1838 Chelsea, as the name is not that common and the date and place is correct.  Also there's the difficulty of her brother William Rowland Pyne (I wonder if you are right about the John Lionel Rowland Pyne being the same person?)  And what about her sister Rowena Maria Pyne who was born in Brighton the same as William Rowland - she is not mentioned in the IGI.  Yes I have got the marriage certs. and all three give William Lionel Pyne as the father, but he is nowhere to be found in any census or BMD, although it doesn't state that he is deceased on any of the marriage cert. in the 1860s.  Apparently Marianne Caldwell remarried in 1843.  She is incidentally living in Upton, Bucks. in 1861 at the same time as Julia Augusta Miller (nee Pyne) is living in the next village of Datchet, Bucks.  Julia gives her address as Upon in 1860 on ther marriage cert., so I am assuming this Marianne Caldwell is also Julia's mother.  As Julia's husband, Edward Colebrooke Miller was in the Royal Navy, perhaps William Lionel Pyne had some connection with the services also.  Who knows!

Online heywood

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Re: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 February 09 01:04 GMT (UK) »
Yes and some of the William R's children were born in the Falklands.

Does it not have an occupation for their father on those marriage certificates?
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Offline Hungry Pelican

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Re: Marianne Caldwell/William Lionel Pyne
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 February 09 01:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi, Yes we've spent hours and hours of wasted time at Kew looking through military records for William Lionel Pyne without any success.  His son William Rowland Pyne was Receiver General for Trinidad until 1885 when he died.