Mixed marriages in Victorian London

[Bassworm]

Hi All,

After being told various tales of Indian ancestry in my family as a child, I've finally tracked down some Indian members on my maternal grandmother's side of the family. The family name is Allee, and my GGG Grandfather Hadjee Allee seems thus far to be the earliest member I can find and may well be the first of the family to come to Britain (Although that's not definite). I notice that he married a local girl Emma Parr in 1846, and their daughter Amminah (Amina/Amena/Amenah) also married a Londoner, William Smith.

I'd be curious to know about Victorian attitudes to mixed marriages, I can well imagine that it wouldn't be an easy situation to be in at the time given prevailing attitudes towards foreigners.

I also notice that they were married in Church. As Hadjee is usually a name often to Moslems who have performed the Hajj, I'm assuming (Again, possibly wrongly) that he was from a Moslem family but presumably had taken the Christian faith at some time. Could anyone give me any info/thoughts on how this might have been viewed at the time?

Finally, I'm curious to know about his family before him. I'd be curious to know how I could find out which part of India his faliy came from. I've tried the various links posted in this forum but have found no mention of the family yet. Anyone have any further suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
Mike.

[jorose]

Which church were they married in? You might want to check the baptism records to see if Hadjee was baptised right before the marriage.
How about witnesses - from her family? Employers? Neighbours? Friends?

Also, what was his occupation? I wonder if he worked for someone in India and then travelled back to England with them?

I see that daughter Zekina/Sekina/Seckina married Gregory Ceely and died in 1870.

Hmm -- Hadjee seems to have died between the 1851 and 1861 censuses (although I can't see a death - perhaps was overseas?)
Your Amminah married 1867, right? She seems to be missing off the 1861 (where her mother and two sisters are listed as "Allen".
Mother Emma I assumed was the one who died in 1868 aged 42,
Emma Amiriam H Allee who married in 1870, to, I think, Walter James Smith, must be the same as the 9 year old daughter in 1861.
I'm not having luck finding her later on.

http://books.google.com/
 - has a reference to a book called Counterflows to Colonialism, which mentions Hadjee Allee, of 61, Boston Place, London, a cook, married an Englishwoman, Emma, and had a daughter Sakeena baptised in 1849 in St. Mary's, Marylebone.

There's also a reference to a Hadjee Allee who was at the Bengal Hotel.

http://www.movinghere.org.uk/
 - baptism of Amena Elizabeth, daughter of Hadjee and Emma Allee, father a cook, 3 Fitzroy Place.
- and also of Sekeena, daughter of Hadjee and Emma Allee, father a cook,  61, Boston Place.  (indexed on their search as Jekeena).

[Bassworm]

Blimey, I leave my research for a few days while working out of the country and when I come back I find you've done loads of it for me. You're an absolute star!

I had found Sekina and wondered if she was 'family', but hadn't made the connection at the time I posted my questions, so you've answered that one. I hadn't come across Emma Amiriam at all yet so that's a new lead to track down. You've given me plenty to work on, many thanks.

I'll have to get hold of a copy of that book too, it sounds like it will answer several of my questions. From your reference it certainly sounds like he was the first of the family to come over to England. Although the marriage cert to Emma mentions his father Abdal Allee, there's no mention of an address, occupation or birthplace which suggests to me that Abdal probably didn't get to the UK.

All this info is very much appreciated, many thanks for helping me develop my tree.

Mike.

[jorose]

The British Library might be able to help with locating other records, although what they hold for non-Europeans tends to be very limited:
http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelpsubject/history/history/asiansinbritain/asiansinbritain.html

[Bassworm]

http://books.google.com/
 - has a reference to a book called Counterflows to Colonialism, which mentions Hadjee Allee, of 61, Boston Place, London, a cook, married an Englishwoman, Emma, and had a daughter Sakeena baptised in 1849 in St. Mary's, Marylebone.

There's also a reference to a Hadjee Allee who was at the Bengal Hotel.




That's particularly interesting, as 'my' Hadjee is described as a cook on Aminah's birth certificate, and on his marriage certificate to Emma.  Even more interesting, but yet to be confirmed is that if he is the Hadjee at the Bengal Hotel, then he appears to have been a quite a famous cook at the time. There's a mention in 'Household words' (the magazine edited by Charles Dickens) in an essay of 1851; a reference to 'the celebrated Indian cook Hadjee Allee, having arrived at the Bengal Hotel'.

There's also a mention of Hadjee Allee in a book on the history of Anglo-Indian cookery called The Road To Vindaloo.


Obviously it would be wrong to jump to conclusions at this stage without further research, especially as Hadjee Allee is probably a relatively common name, but I'd be quite chuffed if one of my ancestors was one of the pioneers of Indian cookng in Britain.

[jorose]

I looked up the addresses in the 1852 London directory (www.historicaldirectories.org)

Boston Place, in Westminster, seems to be listed as Boston Place, Dorset Square, and there are businesses such as a brickmakers and a tobacconist listed there, also a couple of dairies, a baker and some grocers, a hairdresser, etc. No exact references to 61 Boston Place.

Fitzroy Square was much posher, and in the 1841 and 1852 a Lady Forbes is listed there.  If I had to make a guess, I'd say that initially he was working for Lady Forbes, 'live-in' and then perhaps got a job elsewhere which was 'live-out' and was renting accomodation in Boston Place.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=65171 - seems to suggest that Charles Forbes, (baronet from 1823) and then Lady Forbes and James Stewart Forbes resided at 3 Fitzroy Square.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_Baronets#Forbes.2C_of_Newe_.281823.29
 - they must have been these Forbes - Charles Forbes, a merchant from Bombay, India, was made a baronet in 1823.

Perhaps he worked for Charles Forbes in India and was brought back when the family came to London (maybe along with other household staff).

If you look for "Sir Charles Forbes" on Google Books, there are quite a few references to him.


Another possiblity!
HO 107/679/4 25/1
In the household of the Turkish Ambassador, there is a male servant, 30, born "foreign", called Adjee Alli. They are in Marylebone. As the Turkish connection would be odd, this may be a red herring.

[Bassworm]

Hi All,

It's been a while since I added anything to this thread but some more research has prompted a some extra questions which someone here may be able to answer.
It's looking increasingly like my ancestor is the Hadjee Allee in the curry book I mentioned in an earlier part of this thread. he was certainly the one  mentioned in 'Counterflows to Colonialism'.

He was a native of Calcutta, which begs the question, are there likely to be records of births for native Indians out there, from around 1820(-ish)? And if so, how would I go about accessing them, knowing only his name and that of his father (Abdal Allee)? Is it likely to be a fruitless task?

Ta in advance, Mike.

[Valda]

Hi Mike

Though the Indian Office Records at the British Library are about the British in India they probably have the most knowledge on surviving records in India.

http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelpsubject/history/history/asiansinbritain/asiansinbritain.html


Regards

Valda

[Bassworm]

Valda,

Many thanks for that link, I'll give them a try.

Mike.