Birtley Birth of Brown c1846

[Hunter1]

Hi

I'm just about to go insane as I am having so much difficulty trying to find my paternal grandfather and his ancestors. I've been at it for years!

Sadly his name was Joseph Henry Brown - not the most unusual...

The only reference to him and his family I have found is on the 1901 census:

Living at 1 Hedworth St, Chester le Street
James Brown, Head, M, 55, Labourer, b. Durham, Birtley
Emma, Wife, 57, b Ireland
James Wm, son, 34, Merchant Seaman, b. Newcastle on Tyne
Joseph H, son, 21, Labourer, County Council, b. Kent Thorncliffe

The 'Thorncliffe' might be a mistake by the enumerator - it might be Shorncliffe which was an army barracks, or possibly a prison I believe. I can't find any birth record for Joseph W. I have no idea why the family was in Kent....never heard of them being there before.

I know the Joseph H is the right chap as I have a copy of his marriage cert to my grandmother and he was still at the same address.

Can anyone suggest any other route to find records for any of them?

Thanks!!

[PaulineJ]

What resources have you used?
what candidate births have you eliminated?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355506.msg2330238.html#msg2330238

www.ukbmd.org.uk
freebmd.rootsweb.com
www.ancestry.com (1881 indexes)
Freecen.rootsweb.com
ARMY births (not on GRO indexes)

have you worked out the most likely registration district (if the stated place-of-birth were correct)?

Pauline

[Hunter1]

Hi Pauline

I've used all the censuses available via Ancestry.co.uk (had a free trial which I've now cancelled as couldn't afford the whole thing!), also bmd records. It's very difficult with 'Brown' of course. I'm a bit mystified by the big age gap between the brothers too. Obviously children in between could have died but also wondered if they had different mothers.

I've tried Elham as PoB for Joseph Henry, on someone's suggestion, plus simply 'Kent'.

Tried searching for James Wm in Newcastle upon Tyne too but there are quite a few.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Hunter

[PaulineJ]

so you haven't compiled any lists of candidates or bought any certificates?

[sillgen]

What are the details on his marriage certificate?  His age and occupation? Father's occupation.  Names of witnesses?  Every scrap helps to build up the picture.
In 1871 there is an interesting family who might fit.  RG10 5069 27 47
Living in Newcastle
James Brown 37 Corporation labourer b Ireland
Isabel wife 25 b Ireland
John 7
James 2 both b Newcastle
It may be a red herring but the occupation for James is so similar, though the age is not quite right. Clutching at straws here!
Andrea

[PaulineJ]

what does he declare as birthplace in 1911?

[Hunter1]

Thanks Pauline and Sillgen, I'll take the plunge and order a couple of birth certificates which might be James William, and will have a rethink. I'll take a look at that 1871 census, thanks.

I'm not sure how to go about the army births though - tips please!

I'm hoping that the 1911 census might help when it eventually includes Co Durham (the family lived in South Shields by then).

Best wishes

Hunter

[WolfieSmith]

Cant see them anywhere together as a family before 1901.

A possibility.

1891 census, Laundry, Bettws Bleddrws, Cardigan, Wales. RG12/4553 p6.
Frederick Smith, head, 54, Coachman Dom Servant. b. Durham
Emma Smith, wife, 48, b. Belfast,
Robert Smith, son, 13, b. Canterbury, Kent,
Joseph Smith, son, 11, b. Shorncliffe, Kent.

Emma and Joseph are both right age, both born right place and have a Durham connection. Its possible that Frederick died and Emma moved north and met James, or was already there.

Theres also a birth of a Joseph Henry Smith on FreeBMD in Elham, Kent  (includes Shorncliffe area), Sep qtr 1879, vol 2a p 963. The only Joseph Smith for a few years either side, that I checked, so the middle name matches also.

Alan.

[Hunter1]

Hi Alan

This is a conundrum...I need to get my head around it. Thanks very much for the work you have put in! The birth at Elham sounds very interesting. Not sure how to set about the next bit of the search assuming this is right - a search for a marriage between Emma Smith and James Brown perhaps - much later than I have been searching so far.

(On the marriage cert of Joseph Henry Brown to Sarah Elizabeth Tindale (m Dec 1902), his father is down as James Brown, but the witnesses are Thomas Tindale and Robert Little. I've always wondered who that Robert was - any chance of it being the Robert you mention as a brother - or am I just clutching at straws there!)

Many thanks

Hunter