any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?

[welsh lady]

Hiya everyone this is a strange one i cant find a John and Martha with a Mother Jane in 1861 at all under Arran or another surname.
Janes age varies in 1871 shes 36,1881 shes 56,1891 shes 69.
Another thing i noticed but dont know if its an error there are 2 Jane Arrans who passed in Qtr Dec 1896 one age 64 one aged 84 .
Lynette have you looked in St Marys Parish records i have a lot of children around the same time in my own family tree who wernt registered but were baptised.Incase you havent i have asked someone for a look up whos helped me greatly with my own family in Pembs.However dont know if hes transcribed up to the 1850s or 60s yet but have emailed him just incase he has.

Welsh Lady

[arranquest]

Thank you Welsh Lady. I am really hoping for progress on this line of research that you have mentioned.

The death certificate that I have for Jane Arran is 30th September 1896 age 64 years, the informant being Martha Lumkin, daughter.

Kindest Regards, Lynnette (originally from Penally!)

[Arranroots]

I wonder whether either of these families might be connected with yours?

1841 census HO107/744/10/28/1

John ARAN 25 sergeant do (rifle brigade) No
Mary 20 (born - not stated)
Jane 1

Address: District General Barracks, Trevethin, Monmouthshire



1851 census HO107/2489/140/21

John AARON H (marital status not given) 54 - shoemaker - Carmarthen Abergwilly
Mary W (do) 63 - shoemaker wife - do Llanegwad
John son 18 - shoemaker (ap) - do Llandeilo
John DAVIES lodger 18 - do (ap) - Brecknock Llewell

Address: 7 Trecastle Ward, Llywell, Breconshire

[arranquest]

Good Morning Arranroots,

I will try linking these "Aran-Aaron" up. The John ARAN may be the best bet, as the Royal Scots were stationed at Brecon in 1853,and he is already an enlisted man, he may have transferred to the First of Foot (?).

Could I run this hypothesis by:

John and Jane did meet in Pembrokeshire when he was possibly stationed there in May 1853 with the Royal Scots.

She could have born John(jnr.) in that year or early 1854, and then went on to bear Martha later in the same year (the Battalion sailed from Plymouth 3 March of that year).

Then John (snr.) went to and saw active service in the Crimean War, Ceylon, thence India, the 1st Battalion returning home in 1870, whilst the 2nd Battalion moved to Hong Kong, and saw action in the Second Opium War and returned home in 1861!

Might explain the big gap in the birth of the first two and Annie. (Or Annie could even be Martha's other illegitimate child - as I can find no evidence of Annie's birth certificate, although she states that John Arran, a soldier is her father on her marriage certificate - but maybe that was what she was told, but is not the actual truth!!).

Hope you have a good day, Lynnette.

[Spidermonkey]

Good morning Arrans Roots and Quest!

Good find Arranroots on the other 2 John Arrans - there are a couple of possibilities on freebmd for the birth of Jane (as mentioned on the 1841 census):

Sep 1838 
AARON  Jane    Llandilofawr  26 464   
ARAM  Jane     Brecknock  26 234   

Mar 1840   
Arron  Jane     Patrington  23 64

Arranquest - interesting hypothesis, and totally feasible.  The only thing that makes me wonder, is the quick turnaround of babies (but that is probably due to me having a young baby and the thought of having another one any time soon is scary  )

What about if the John and Mary of the 1841 census had John jr and Martha.  Mary died, and John sr met Jane and they had Annie.  John jr and Martha could refer to Jane as mother.

[welsh lady]

Hiya Owen Vaughan has kindly done the look ups for us hes very knowledgable in this area of Pembs and has transcribed many Parish Records of the area and is extremely helpful so a big thank you to Owen for letting me pass this info to you.
The following should add quite nicely to your confusion ;
My index of Pembs St Mary Baptism 1847 to 1895 13 Oct 1879 Annie to Jane Arran of Bridge Terrace a washer woman baptised by C.W. Coddington a private baptism the child aged 12 yrs
06 Jun 1872 Albert to Martha Arron of Back Lane a single woman baptised by Henry S. Blink a private baptism.
There is no reference to the baptism of John Arran in the Castlemartin or Narberth hundred 1837 to 1900.
The mrge if there was one would probably have taken place at Pembroke Dock St John can check at the Record Office probably next week.
 I can find no burials at St Mary or St Michael for the Arran (various spelling) surname.
It was very common that when a single woman married after having children the children automatically changed their surname to their “new” father, this normally takes place without any reference to authority.. I have my own examples of exactly this happening and have come across it searching for others.
 I next turned to my Pembs St Mary Index for 1847 to 1895 and re-engineered the list to forename and date and came up with the following
07 Sept 1852 John to John & Mary Morgans of the Union a Soldier baptised by W.M.D. Berrington.This is the only John baptised at Pembs St Mary 1850 to 1854 and is the only Soldier shown in the period 1847 to 1895 with a son John. Trust this is of some assistance.

Welsh Lady, via  Owen Vaughan

[Arranroots]

Lol Spidermonkey! Congrats on the baby & hope you're getting some sleep!

Welshlady, that's wonderful!  Do encourage Owen to join in with us on Rootschat - Pembs needs all the help it can get!

I wonder if he would mind answering a question?  I' m wondering whether it is usual in his experience for a baptism to say just the wife's name?  I've seen plenty of earlier ones that just give the father's name, or both, but often when it is just the wife's name it means she is unmarried.  Of course, this theory is immediately contradicted by Martha's being described as "single woman" and Jane not!

Look forward to any other things Owen finds out.

By the way - the ARRANS I posted earlier were just a couple from several options - the name AHERNE comes up quite a bit ...

Kind regards, Arranroots 

[arranquest]

  Brilliant Welsh Lady - please convey my thanks to Owen.

Have a good feeling that this hopefully will be cracked very soon.

I have a fair bit of info. regarding surnames CAVILL and BESANT (Pembrokeshire) - if anyone needs assistance!

Lynnette.

[arranquest]

Hello Welsh Lady

Hope the weekend was a good one.

Took notice of your message regarding 2 Jane Arrans passing in the qtr Dec 1896, did a check to be sure I had right one, and there is only the one listed, agree with you that there is a "clerical error" somewhere on ancestry site!!!


Kindest Regards, Lynnette.