Author Topic: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?  (Read 3590 times)

Offline arranquest

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any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« on: Thursday 22 January 09 11:51 GMT (UK) »
Hello, I am new to the site and came upon it when desperatley seeking "JOHN ARRAN" of the 1st of Foot, who left descendents in Pembrokeshire! - namely me!!

I have managed to trace documentation as far back as his good wife Jane a widow in 1871 census of Pembrokeshire.

I can neither find documentation of his three childrens' birth certificates John (1852/1854), Martha (1854/1855) and Annie (1868/1869) or indeed his marriage certificate to Jane (apparently from Narbeth 1832/1835).

I have been in touch with Colonel Mason of the Royal Scots, who was very informative regarding the movements of 1st of Foot in Wales in 1853/1854. Also with Kew, but they could not trace John in the 1st Battalion musters of 1852-1854.

So, I am hoping that there is someone here that may have a lead on JOHN ARRAN, so that I can follow further back on the genetics trail!!.

Regards, Lynnette.

Offline Arranroots

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Re: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 22 January 09 14:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi Lynnette

Welcome to Rootschat!  :)

I couldn't resist this one!

As you say, no obvious marriage - nor death for John senior.

Do you have a marriage certificate for any of the children, to see what they say about their father?

I find the gap between the children's ages interesting - John 19, Martha 17 and Annie 3 in 1871.  Could this have been a second marriage?  Do you know Jane's maiden name and could one of more of them have been illegitimate?

I notice that she has another son Albert who is aged 10 in 1881 ...?  There is a birth registration for him in December 1871, Pembroke   11a 771 .

Will have another look later.

Kind regards, Arranroots  ;)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline arranquest

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Re: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 23 January 09 10:41 GMT (UK) »
Good Morning Arranroots,

Thank you so much for contacting me :)

I will tell you what I have:

Albert was the illegitimate son of Martha, although Jane registered his birth.

On the marriage certificates of the children, all have the name John Arran a soldier, deceased on them.

I cannot find Jane's maiden name as I, nor the exceptionally helpful registrars of Pembrokshire can find birth certificates of the John (jr.), Martha or Annie.

On Jane's death certificate, she is stated as being a widow of John a Private 1st Foot Regiment.



The information that Colonel Mason forwarded to me is as follows:

"Our 1st Battalion moved, in January 1853, from Portsmouth to South Wales - HQ and 5 companies in Newport, 2 Companies at Carmarthen, 2 at Brecon and 1 at Cardigan.

On 24 May the 2 from Brecon relieved the Depot of the 36th of Foot at Pembroke and, on 31 May, 2 from Newport joined them. On 3 March 1854 the Battalion sailed from Plymouth for the Crimea War. The 36th were the Herefordshire Regiment which, through various convolutions, became the Worcester and Sherwood Foresters.

1853 was the only time that the Battalion was in Pembroke or indeed in Wales."


Any advice from you on where to go from here would be would be appreciated!

Many thanks, Lynnette.

Offline Spidermonkey

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Re: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 23 January 09 12:27 GMT (UK) »
Have you discounted the John Arran who served with the 20th Dragoon? 
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-3877815&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CJOHN%2CARRAN&accessmethod=0

I know absolutely zilch about the armed forces, so for all I know, the Dragoons could be a totally difference time period, but I thought I would let you know about this John Arran just in case.

Best wishes, and good luck with your search,

Spider

Added:  I think he may be too early for your John Arran, so I do apologise for leading you up the garden path


Offline Spidermonkey

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Re: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 23 January 09 12:42 GMT (UK) »

I find the gap between the children's ages interesting - John 19, Martha 17 and Annie 3 in 1871.  Could this have been a second marriage?  Do you know Jane's maiden name and could one of more of them have been illegitimate?


Do you mean a second marriage for John?  Because I was wondering whether John and Martha were Jane's children - her age is given as 36, which means she would have been about 16 when she had John - not impossible by any means, but may suggest that Jane was John senior's second wife.  ???

Offline arranquest

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Re: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 23 January 09 12:54 GMT (UK) »
Greetings Spider!

An interesting train of thought! Could be The ONE. If this be my man, I wonder why the alias?

But I am still keeping options open for the Scottish connection.

Much appreciation for the link, Lynnette.

Offline Arranroots

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Re: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 23 January 09 13:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi Both

Yes, I was suggesting a second marriage for Jane, indicated by the gap before Annie's birth.  Also wondered about Albert - but if Martha was Albert's mother, that would explain that.

Have you looked for births for "a Martha" with a different surname in the right year?

If the regiment was only in Pembrokeshire for a short period, that suggests that either Jane met and married him elsewhere, or someone was telling porkies somewhere along the line!

Unless John Arran adopted the children and they took his name?

Confused of Gloucestershire ...

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline Arranroots

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Re: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 23 January 09 13:49 GMT (UK) »
Here's one out of left-field -

How committed are you to the idea that the surname is ARRAN?  Could it have been misheard?  There are a John and  a Martha born in Haverfordwest about the right time - surname ALLEN.

I haven't followed this up, just thought I'd throw it into the mix!

 :)
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SOM: BIRD, BURT aka BROWN - HEF: BAUGH, LATHAM, CARTER, PRITCHARD - GLS: WEBB, WORKMAN, LATHAM, MALPUS - WIL: WEBB, SALTER - RAD: PRITCHARD, WILLIAMS - GLA: RYAN, KEARNEY, JONES, HARRY - MON: WEBB, MORGAN, WILLIAMS, JONES, BIRD - SCOTLAND: HASTINGS, CAMERON, KELSO, BUCHANAN, BETHUNE/ BEATON - IRELAND: RYAN (WATERFORD), KEARNEY (DUBLIN), BOYLE(DUNDALK)

Offline arranquest

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Re: any other arrans with a Pembrokeshire link?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 23 January 09 14:36 GMT (UK) »
Incredible! Will positively follow that train of thought - especially as Jane appears as Harran in later census of 1891, living with her daughter Martha and her family (Lumkin).  ;)