Baptism - George COOPER c1881 Iver Heath

[Necromancer]

Hi Wookie, sorry that its a lot of facts at a time !


please read all the posts carefully as I have some unaswered questions - ta .

staying focused on the George that married in 1902 ...


If you search the free Index in the 'official' 1901 census -

http://www.1901censusonline.com/search.asp?wci=person_search&page=search&searchtype=1&


you can see all Georges born for example 1875 to 1885 with occupation - all in the Greater London area.

The only Railway related job out of 73 candidates is a Detective .....

If 'young' George born Walworth, is the only candidate found in 1911, the I guess thats it.


So where was George the shunter/porter in 1911, and what PoB does he show ?

[wookietoo]

Hi Wookie, sorry that its a lot of facts at a time !


please read all the posts carefully as I have some unaswered questions - ta .

So where was George the shunter/porter in 1911, and what PoB does he show ?

Sorry, I'm having trouble keeping up!
I have to embarrassingly confess to a degree of ignorance and scarcity of cash!
I have paid to look at as many George's as I can afford (more, really) on the 1911 census, and can't find him anywhere - he is very much the missing link.

note mothers maiden name appears in Index post 1911 - seems a big gap ?

It looks very promising when you put it together with the Eileen Apthorpe Cooper!
I don't know how to find the index though so I don't know what you mean......

[Necromancer]

Index as shown when you search FreeBMD for Births etc ...... after 1911 they showed mothers maiden name (I highlighted that particular one) in Birth Index and after 1912 (or vice versa) they showed Spouse name in the marriage index.

The name I showed was Eileen Cooper, Apthorpe is the index field for Mothers Maiden name ......

Did you see I found a Margaret born in Camberwell - might be Maisie ....


Well, if we cant find George in 1911, thats a blow cos we really need his PoB !

I'd leave it for a few months until you can get a subscription to the site - he isnt going anywhere   

[wookietoo]

ok......

To back track...
I just double-checked....

From his grave photo I searched for deaths in 3rd quarter 1977 and his was the *only* George Henry Cooper registered, and it gives dob. My birth cert matches that date, so the Sophia Apthorpe is definitely correct. If you have found a birth for Eileen with mothers name Apthorpe, Apthorpe is a rare name, and I know there was an Eileen, so I am confident that this is her.

Would getting a birth certificate for her give me anything new?
I'm reluctant to pay for one for the Margaret when she might not be correct!

Silly as it seems I didn't know about the 1901censusonline site, with the index that gives occupations.
I have a subscription to Ancestry.com, but find it an absolute pig to search properly.

[Necromancer]

Hi W, I dont doubt that the George you back-tracked on and obtained a Birth Cert for is your man - I'm saying that given the FATHER's info about railway work etc shown on Marriage and Birth Certs, that the young George you found with Grandparents in the Butchery trade in the 1911 census may not be the same chap !

Which means that he might be one of the other Birth Index entries I showed, and that YOUR chap is elsewhere ...... altho given that it really looks like his Mum in hospital in 1911, being with Grandparents would not be unusual ..... so maybe the info about occupations was deliberatley wrong ?


so we need his Dad's info to make the link with the family George jnr was with in 1911, and the George I saw with them in the same road in 1901.


No, Eileens cert probably wont help - and the Margaret is pure guesswork based on a diminutive name and the District and year born - if you ordered it from the GRO you could make it conditional on mother's name, would save £3.00 if wrong.

All it might yield is another occupation for George and another address - other than proving that you were right about another daughter.


Phew, need to go and lie down now   

[wookietoo]

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it - I feel that finding Eileen is a step forward!
The more names I can accurately put on a tree the more chances that a relation will come forward.

In the 1901 I have found a George living in a lodging house, described as a porter - others in there state railway porter or kitchen porter...... He's in Southwark and born in Southwark. Wondering if shunter could also mean porter. All very menial jobs for a chap who went on to be a top lighting technician at Ellstree Film Studios!

Also found another George who is described as a "carman" - no idea what that is, but sounds a possibility.....born in City and living in Southwark

[Necromancer]

lost me - which George went on to be a Lighting Tech in Elstree studios - father or son ?

Carman / Carrier - drove a horse and cart .... A person who drove a vehicle used to transport goods or maybe a forerunner of a Cab driver ..... google one of the old occupation sites ...

[wookietoo]

Lost myself sorry, so tired. 1904 George. Keep forgetting it's his father we are looking at....don't shout at me please 

[Necromancer]

now, if we could find the George from 1901 I showed in the butchers family - PoB Southall wasnt it .... in the 1911 .....

must go, good luck.