All census to 1901 Joseph BAPTIST

[osborn]

Is it possible to find a birth knowing only the mother's name, the date and the town?

I am still trying to find Fred Baptist's birth cert.  I only have the 1911 census details to go on.

                                       Osborn

[Richard Knott]

The answer is that you can find a birth knowing just that, but how certain are you about what you do have?

As far as I know you have the 1911 entry where he is Fred Baptist, 9, b Pimlico. Although described as Joseph's son, it is just as likely that he is a stepson as Joseph and Emma didn't marry until 1906.

You also have a marriage certificate where he is described as Frederick James Baptist, son of Frederick James Baptist and Emma Eveleigh. Again, marriage certificates are unreliable and an illegitimate child often makes up a father's name. I can find no mention of a Frederick James Baptist in any of the London baptism/marriage/death records which adds fuel to the idea that Fred jr was illegitimate.

The closest I can see is this:

Mar 1903  Fulham  1a 242
Fred John E Eveleigh

I can't actually find this on the London records to see who the parents were.

Richard

[osborn]

I have been going over and over the same info. and came up with the same idea that Fred was illegitimate.  HOWEVER, would you think I may find out SOME info. if I bought the Fred John E Eveleigh birth cert??  Please advise....

I would be willing to keep the history of his stepfather as his, as that would have been the only family he would have known.

This has been a frustrating project......        Osborn.

[Richard Knott]

First you will have to decide whether it is the right person. Pimlico is close to, but not in, Fulham; 'Fred John E' is not the same as 'Frederick James'; and someone born in that quarter would have been 8 in 1911 not 9. However, I don't think there are any other strong candidates for Fred John E Eveleigh on the 1911 census.

Even if it is the right person the certificate will almost definitely not name the father (and, since they didn't marry until 1906, Joseph is unlikely to be the father anyway). What it might do is confirm that Fred is the illegitimate son of Emma. I'm not an expert on Bastardy Recognizances, but I think 1906 is well past the date when they existed, and the magistrate records have probably been destroyed, so there is no way back there either.

Richard

[osborn]

Well, I think I will have to "bite the bullet" and send for the birth cert.  I know that I may be wasting money, but I cannot see any other way around it.

                                            Osborn

[osborn]

Well, I have just received the birth cert. for Fred J. E. Eveleigh and it is not the person I was after (again!)

If anyone is after info. re this person with father Richard and mother Fannie I can email the birth cert to you.

I am not sure what to do now - should I just try and "flesh out" what I have and just accept that Frederick James Baptist has only known Joseph Baptist as his father but make a note of the fact that we cannot find a birth cert. for Frederick?

Any advice would be appreciated.       Osborn.

[Richard Knott]

I think Fred's baptism/birth doesn't want to be found.

In 1901 Emma is living in St George Hanover Square (ie Pimlico) and the 1911 census states that Fred was born in Pimlico in 1901/2.

In 1901 she is living with the Weeks family, who have lots of sons, and there is someone called Fred Ingram, 16 also boarding there. The co-incidence of names is probably just that; but I can't find any Freds baptised in Westminster in 1901/2 with mother Emma that have surnames anything like Eveleigh/Ingram.

Richard

[osborn]

Thanks for that Richard.  What do you suggest I do now?  Will I just accept that Fred only knew Joseph as his father/stepfather or can you suggest ANYTHING else I should do?

                                                 Osborn

[Richard Knott]

I can't suggest anything more except putting up a separate posting aimed at establishing whether Emma was Fred's mother, as this is very long and may put people off reading it.

You may then find that some of the London experts, such a Valda, have something to add.

I'll send you a PM.

Richard