All census to 1901 Joseph BAPTIST

[osborn]

I have just received the copy of the marriage cert. of Joseph BAPTIST and Elizabeth FOWLER.    Details are:

1869 at the Parish Church, Parish of St. Marys Lambeth, county of Surrey.
20th Oct, 1869.
Joseph BAPTIST Jnr. Full age, batchelor, Printer, Gloucester Road, Joseph Baptist (father), Musician.

Elizabeth FOWLER, full age, Spinster, Gloucester Road, James Fowler  dec.(father)  Boot closer.

Married in the Parish Church after Banns by John C. Wetherell(?). Curate.
Signed: Joseph Baptist Jnr. and Elizabeth Fowler
In the presence of: Ed. Powell and Ann Miles.

So where do I go from here?  Do I now try to find the marriage date of Joseph BAPTIST and Margaret?  They are the previous generation.

I also received the copy of the birth cert. for Frank Eveleigh, but he is no relation, so missed out there.
                                                   Osborn.

[Richard Knott]

I'm glad it's all coming together.

What you do next depends on whether you want to push back or flesh out what you have. If it's the former, these will help:

1851  HO107/1570
32 Gloster St
Joseph Baptist, 30, musician, b St George's, Surrey
Margaret Baptist, 29, b Christchurch, Surrey
Francis Baptist, son, 9m, b Lambeth

1851  HO107/1570  (indexed under Candell)
1 Apollo Buildings, Lambeth
Francis Cundell, 61, bricklayer's labourer, b Richmond, Yorkshire
Elizabeth Cundell, 59, char woman, b Richmond, Yorkshire
Joseph Baptist, 3, g-son, b Lambeth

Margaret Cundell's birth in 1822 is on the IGI; I'll leave you to look up the details.

1841  HO107/1084/2
St George the Martyr, Southwark
Joseph Baptist, 20, musician, Yes

Unfortunately he is lodging, so no sign of parents. There are Baptists in the area including:

HO107/1057/5  Lambeth
John Baptist, 50, musician, Yes

And lastly the fun part:

Marriage
Jun 1842  Lambeth
Margaret CUNDLE
John Baptist DeLAIN ??!!
(There are other names, but the juxtaposition of Cundle/Baptist/Lambeth at the right time can't be a co-incidence).
One possible explanation for his name is that he was born the illegitimate son of Miss DeLain before she married his father Mr Baptist. Alternatively he changed his name: Jean-Baptiste Delain is quite a common name on the continent.

No prizes for guessing which certificate is the next one to buy!

Richard

[osborn]

This is wonderful Richard - I have just sent for the marriage cert. of Baptist Delain and Cundle so will have to await this one. 

I STILL cannot find trace of the birth cert. for Frederick James BAPTIST, b.1902, Pimlico, London.  (the one that started all this research!!)  Any ideas here?

Anyway, thank you so much and I will be in touch when this next cert. arrives.       Osborn

[Richard Knott]

I have just looked through your other posts and I'm not sure how you know that Frederick James Baptist is the son of Joseph and Emma (nee Eveleigh) Baptist, as you are still looking for Frederick's birth certificate.

Does Frederick name Joseph on his marriage certificate (anyway not a proof)? Looking at the dates (Fred b 1902; Joseph m Emma 1906) it would seem more likely that Fred was Joseph's stepson.

What is the first reference to Frederick James Baptist?

Before going even further back it would seem important to find Fred's birth certificate.

(As an aside I think Emma was being a little economical with the truth over her age. In earlier censuses (RG10/526; RG11/116; RG12/467; RG13/88) her age is consistent with her birth in Sep 1861. Her father, John, was a soldier in 1861).

Richard

[osborn]

Hi Richard - in reply to your questions
i.  On Frederick JAMES Baptist mariage cert. his father is also named as   Frederick James Baptist  (and not Joseph)  His mother is named as Emma Eveleigh.  The marriage was in Australia in 1927.

ii.  The copy of the 1911 England Census lists JOSEPH Baptist  as father, Emma Baptist as mother and Fred Baptist as son, age 9. b. Pimlico.

iii.  I have searched for Frederick James Baptist birth under different variations e.g. Frederick James; Frederick James Baptist; Frederick Eveleigh.

I do have a copy of the marriage cert. of Joseph Baptist and Emma Eveleigh dated 1906.

I also have a photocopy of a "Certificate of Identity" dated 1923 for Frederick James Baptist when he sailed to Australia.  I don't know whether this needed a birth cert. to obtain?  And where would I go to follow this up?

We always knew my father-in-law as Frederick James Baptist and none of his children know otherwise......

Now, about Emma Eveleigh - She lists her birthplace on the 1911 Census as Tower Hill and her age as either 43 or 48 (smudged).  On her marriage cert. dated 1906, she lists her age at 34.  Her father as John Eveleigh, pensioner.
I haven't gone any further with her.  Could you let me know the details of the census you quoted in your last post please?!!  I did find Eveleighs in Devon, but here John Eveleigh married a Sarah A. and not an Elizabeth as the 1881 census shows, so I don't think they are the ones.  I didn't know John Eveleigh was a soldier in 1861 either.
                                                                   Osborn

                   

[PrueM]

Hi Osborn,
Good to see you're making progress on the Baptists! 
Re. Emma Eveleigh, see below my earlier post with Emma in 1901.  Hope that's helpful to you.
Cheers
Prue

Hi Osborn,
Emma is still in Devon in 1901, aged 44, married to Frederick aged 39.

Your Emma Eveleigh is shown as a spinster aged 34 on the marriage certificate to Joseph Baptist so I am pretty sure they are two different people. 

Your Emma is a Lodger at 12 Westmoreland Place, London in 1901, born Tower Hill London ca. 1862, a general servant (domestic).

Prue

[osborn]

Thanks Prue - Yes I still have your info. thank you.   I am finding this family very difficult, but will press on with all your wonderful help.....
                                                      Osborn

[PrueM]

Thanks to Richard for the refs  

1891 (RG12/467/22/38)
19 Maud Rd, Camberwell
John EVELEIGH, Head, Widower, 59. Porter at St Geo. Hospital, b. Devonshire, Woodbury
Emma EVELEIGH, Daur, S, 29, b. Middlesex, London

ADDED:

1881 (RG11/116/13/19)
121 Lillington St, St John the Evangelist, Westminster
John EVELEIGH, Head, M, 49. Porter, b. Devon, Woodbury
Elizabeth, Wife, M, 48.  b. Devon, Erynse? Morehead
Emma EVELEIGH, Daur, S, 19, no occupation, b. London
Eliza, Daur, S, 15, Milliner, b. London

ADDED:

1871 (RG10/526/41/18)
Tower of London (!), St Botolph without Aldgate
John EVELEIGH, Head, M, 39. Soldier, b. Exmouth, Devon
Elizabeth, Wife, M, 38.  Wife of above,  b. Exeter, Devon
Elizabeth, Daur, 11.  Scholar, b. London, Middlesex
Emma, Daur, 10, Scholar, b. London, Middlesex
Sarah, Daur, 7, Scholar, b. London, Middlesex
Eliza, Daur, 5, Scholar, b. London, Middlesex

ADDED:

1861 (RG9/274/40 & 41/12 & 13)
17 Queen St,  St Botolph without Aldgate
John EVELEIGH, Head, M, 28. Soldier Coldstream Guards, b. Woodbourn, Devon
Elizabeth, Wife, M, 27,  b. Cruysmorehead?, Devon
Elizabeth A, Daur, 1,  b. Marylebone, Middlesex

[PrueM]

OK...Elizabeth COBLEY (Mrs John Eveleigh) was born Cruwys Morchard, Devon. 

There's a possible marriage showing on FreeBMD for Elizabeth COBLEY and John EVELEIGH:  March qtr, Marylebone Vol 1a, p 597.

I can see what I think might be Elizabeth in 1851, in Washford Pyne with her parents JOhn and Mary, and siblings Emma, John and Mary.  If you'd like the details I can get those for you.