All census to 1901 Joseph BAPTIST

[Richard Knott]

Joseph appears to have been born in Lambeth:

1861  RG9/350
1 Providence Place, Lambeth
Joseph Baptist, 43, musician, b London
Margaret Baptist, 39, b Lambeth
Joseph Baptist, 13, colour printer, b Lambeth
Francis Baptist, 10, b Lambeth
Elizabeth Baptist, 5, b Lambeth

Richard

[Richard Knott]

The Baptist/Fowler looks more likely:

RG9/349   1861
2 Little Charlotte Place
James Fowler, 35, boot closer
Martha Fowler, 32, b Hammersmith
Elizabeth Fowler, 10, dau
Francis Fowler, 7, dau
Lucy Fowler, 5, dau
James Fowler, 3, son
John Fowler, 1, son     all rest b Southwark

Right names but odd place:

Marriage  Mar 1878 Birmingham
Nathaniel Frederick Howes
Frances Fowler

(probably not the same family: there is another Frances Fowler in he area)

Richard

[Sisterjane]

Hi Richard

Dont want to chuck a spanner in the works here but Im sure the 1871 image says that Joseph is a painter and not a printer...


Jane

[Sisterjane]

Have you seen this entry in the 1881 cencus..its a bit dodgy and doesnt make a lot of sense but yer just never know 

RG11/135/18/29

Jane

[osborn]

Thank you all so much for all the info. - this is what I can make out so far...

Joseph BAPTIST b. abt 1808 Lambeth.  (dont know Father or Mother)
married Margaret [(maiden name?)
died (year??)[
children from marriage - Joseph b. 1848, Francis b. 1841, Elizabeth b. 1846

Joseph BAPTIST b. 1848 (father: Joseph.  Mother: Margaret)
married Elizabeth FOWLER 1869. Lambeth
died March 1901, London C.
Children from marriage - Joseph b. 1879

Joseph BAPTIST b. 1879 (father: Joseph . Mother: Elizabeth)
married Emma EVELEIGH . b. 1868. Tower Hill
children from marriage - Frederick James b. 1902. Pimlico, London.

There is a Joseph James BAPTIST b. Oct/Nov/Dec 1880 (vol.1c. Pge 7) in Anc*****, but I cannot get vision or print of the actual document (??)

Did the names Ellen and Elizabeth interchange in the 1800s?

Where is Finsbury?

In 1871 census RG10/311 - I would have thought that maybe a "printer" would have had more to do with a "book binder" than a painter would - just a thought...what are your thoughts?

If you can read through this and help me sort things out I will be ever so happy (and I guess YOU will be also!)
                                                                      Osborn

[PrueM]

Hi Richard

Dont want to chuck a spanner in the works here but Im sure the 1871 image says that Joseph is a painter and not a printer...


Jane

I agree - the a in painter is quite different from the "r"s on the page, which have a definite loop and flat top...here's the image:

[PrueM]

Osborn - it might be worth spending a few quid on a possible birth cert for your Joseph:

Dec 1880, London City, Vol 1c, Page 7
BAPTIST    Joseph James    

This would fit with his age and birthplace on the 1901 census.

Prue 

[Richard Knott]

I agree that it says 'painter' - indeed I read it as that when I first saw it, so don't know why I wrote printer. That's why I suggested it as a possibility rather than likely.

I still think it is a possibility: his wife in 1901 is the right age, has an occupation linked to books, and may have been called Elizabeth elsewhere. A Joseph Baptist (an unusual name) was a printer when 13; probably married an Elizabeth Fowler; and Elizabeth/Frances Fowler sisters are the right age, born in the right place in the 1861 census.

Richard

[PrueM]

Wow, I'm getting really confused now  (nothing new there!)

Let me get this straight:

In 1911 we have
Joseph BAPTIST.  Head,32. M. Coachman (travellers) Bishopsgate St.
Emma BAPTIST,  Wife, 43, M, 10 yr., Tower Hill.
Fred BAPTIST, Son, 9, Pimlico.
at 21/2 Block Sutton Street.

Working backwards, in 1901 we found
22 in 23 Little Sutton St, Clerkenwell, London
Elizabeth BAPTISTE   Head   Widow   50   Book folder    Worker   London, Southwark
Joseph BAPTISTE   Son   Single   21   Mail Driver   Worker   London, Bishopsgate
Frances HOWES[?]   Sister   Married   48   Laundress   Worker   London, Southwark

Backwards again, we have so far got no potential candidates for 1891 or 1881 for Joseph.
We do have possible parents in various years but none that seem to match 100%.

I think rather than working forwards from a marriage for people who may or may not be Joseph's parents, it would be better for Osborn to buy the birth cert for the Joseph James BAPTIST in 1880 to try to confirm parents that way (sorry Osborn, when I suggested this earlier I didn't notice you'd already found the ref for that cert).

Cheers
Prue