Dempsey Terris/Terence 1841 +1851

[Jessie4me]

Looking for Terris Dempsey. Sons John and Joseph born 1832 & 1834 Liverpool. If any one has the opportunity to look up census records for the Lancashire area.  This is all the information I have and would appreciate that will help me find this relative.

[jds1949]

Dear Jessie,

I found this entry in the 1851 census which might be what you are looking for:

Piece 2177 folio 173
Liverpool
94, Back Portland
John Dempsey head widower 64 Carpenter [ship] b. Liverpool
Ann Dempsey daughter single 14 b. Liverpool
James Dempsey son single 13 b. Liverpool
Ellen Dempsey daughter single 10 b. Liverpool
Joseph Dempsey son single 16 b. Liverpool
Mary Dempsey daughter single 15 b. Liverpool

Now there is clearly something odd going on here - at its simplest the enumerator missed the first two children as he started to write and then just stuck them on the end - or we have two sets of children - possibly grandchildren rather than children - or we have John with a much youinger and now deceased wife.

That's the only Joseph I could find of the right sort of age - though there is no John - I did find a John of the right sort of age, with another Dempsey family and no Joseph - he was with Margaret 40, Michael 15 and Catherine 14 - his age was 18.

jds1949

[Sisterjane]

Hi

This looks like it is the same family in 1841

1841 Cencus-Liverpool
HO107/564/16/15/22
Back Portland St

All children b Lancashire

Dempsey

John 50  b Ireland     Shipwright
Elizabeth 40 b  "
John 17
Ellen 13
Jane 11
Joseph 9
James 7
Terresa 5     


Jane

[Jessie4me]

Thank you for the information not certain it is the right family but will keepthis in mind as some of the childrens names crop in the family here.  A marriage certificate of John shows the father as Terris not John.
Your help is very much appreciated as I have been researching this family for years with out success.


Jessie

[bd_1006]

Dear Jessie4me,

I too am interested in John & Joseph Dempsey brothers born in Liverpool.
Both brothers travelled to NZ about 1863 and were saddle makers in the South Island.
John married Agnes Broadhurst in Aston Juxta Birmingham on 8 Dec 1862.
I'm descended from them.
I did research on NZ histories about 15 years back & have only restarted looking today.  A distant relative from the South Island informed me back then that John & Joseph's fathers name was Tenis (very similar to Terris) but I could never find a document that explained why as all the ones I had from NZ said John, carpenter, of Lancashire. Please let me know if you think we are looking for the same ancestors and want to combine efforts-Cheers

[morrisde]

I too am trying to track down any relations to John and Agnes (nee Broadhurst) Dempsey, they are my Great Great Grandparents who lived in NZ, my Great Grandfather was Frederick John Dempsey who married Ruth Pricilla Pinnell, Im especially interested in the author who posted the one I copied onto my post, sounds like a connection

~~~~~~~~--


Dear Jessie4me,

I too am interested in John & Joseph Dempsey brothers born in Liverpool.
Both brothers travelled to NZ about 1863 and were saddle makers in the South Island.
John married Agnes Broadhurst in Aston Juxta Birmingham on 8 Dec 1862.
I'm descended from them.
I did research on NZ histories about 15 years back & have only restarted looking today.  A distant relative from the South Island informed me back then that John & Joseph's fathers name was Tenis (very similar to Terris) but I could never find a document that explained why as all the ones I had from NZ said John, carpenter, of Lancashire. Please let me know if you think we are looking for the same ancestors and want to combine efforts-Cheers

[bd_1006]

G'day,

Have some info... will have to forgive me 'cos I will burble on...

John & Agnes's marriage certificate states that John's father is Tenis - (have checked pages & pages of marriages certs by the same priest & definitely seems to begin with a T).

However, I believe that John & Joseph's father's name is Denis/Dennis and their mother is Elizabeth Reece.  I say believe because the birthdates of Denis & Elizabeth's kids don't exactly match with ages on the death certs of John & Joseph.

Of course, no official docs state John/Joe's birthdates.

Oral history was always that their father was a ships carpenter/ shipwright.  Have looked at the Back Portland St family but their John got married to someone else & ours has bachelor on marriage cert to Agnes.  The Joe is 10 years out.

Have also always been told that they came from Lancaster, Liverpool, Lancashire but have always been confused by that 'cos Lancaster in North of Liverpool &, I think, in the wrong county.

Anyway... Dennis and Elizabeth died in the workhouse  buried 26/04/1839 in cemetery in parish of St Mary.  They were 'papists' - which immediately makes you think 'no', but...  then again, it is "Lancaster in Liverpool".  On 08/05/1839 their son Thomas died aged 10 months.

In the 1841 census you will find a John and Joseph in the Liverpool workhouse & fever hospital - on different pages.

On 13/03/1833 Joseph was born (bapt 20/03/1833) - now doubt comes in of course because your Joe's gravestone says he was born in Liverpool in 1834.

John's birth is a bit more questionable... I forget the birthday right now but it's fairly easy to find if you search for John, born to Dennis Dempsey & Elizabeth Reece.

Denis & Elizabeth had other kids including a Mary & I think a William...  (don't have many records with me now).

I think the age differences can be explained because they were orphaned young, I think the religion can be explained for the same reasons...  and the Lancaster issue just fits nicely.

[garstonite]

Liverpool and Lancaster in 1800's up to 1970's were in the same County = Lancashire
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNMV-LLS

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV79-2QJ

so unless this 1829 John Dempsey died and another child was born 1834 and also named John Dempsey - it would appear that Denis Dempsey and Elizabeth Reece may not be John and Josephs parents ?

[Blue70]

I think Tenis could be Denis I would agree with that. Here are some Liverpool records for this family:-

Marriage

Date: 13 Oct 1828 St John, Liverpool, Lancs.
Denis Dempsey - Labourer, Liverpool
Elizabeth Reece - (X), Spinster, same parish
Witness: Mary Price, (X); William Holden
Married by Banns by: Thomas Stringer, Curate


Births/Baptisms

John Dempsey
27 Jun 1829
25 Oct 1829
St Anthony's RC Liverpool
Dennis Dempsey
Elizabeth Reece

Mary Dempsey
12 Feb 1831
6 Mar 1831
St Anthony's RC Liverpool
Dennis Dempsey
Elizabeth Reece

Joseph Dempsey
13 Jan 1833
20 Jan 1833
St Mary's RC Liverpool
Denis Dempsey
Elizabeth Dempsey

Helen Dempsey
19 Oct 1834
16 Nov 1834
St Mary's RC Liverpool
Denis Dempsey
Elizabeth Dempsey

Name: William Demsey
25 Sep 1836
9 Oct 1836
St Anthony's RC Liverpool
Dennis Demsey
Elizabeth Rice

Thomas Dempsey
12 Aug 1838
16 Sep 1838
St Anthony's RC Liverpool
Dennis Dempsey
Elizabeth Rees


Burials

Name: Elizabeth Dempsey
Abode: Liverpool Workhouse
Age: 40
Burial Date: 26 Apr 1839
Cemetery: St Mary’s Cemetery, Cambridge Street, Liverpool

Name: Dennis Dempsey
Abode: Liverpool Workhouse
Age: 44
Burial Date: 26 Apr 1839
Cemetery: St Mary’s Cemetery, Cambridge Street, Liverpool

Name: Thomas Dempsey
Abode: Liverpool Workhouse
Age: 10 Months
Burial Date: 8 May 1839
Cemetery: St Mary’s Cemetery, Cambridge Street, Liverpool

Name: Ellen Dempsey
Abode: Liverpool Workhouse
Age: 4
Burial Date: 21 Jun 1839
Cemetery: St Mary’s Cemetery, Cambridge Street, Liverpool

Name: William Dempsey
Abode: Liverpool Workhouse
Age: 3
Burial Date: 11 Sep 1839
Cemetery: St Mary’s Cemetery, Cambridge Street, Liverpool


St Mary’s Cemetery is a different St Mary's to the St Mary's RC church. This St Mary’s was the Church of England’s parish cemetery. The probable reason for catholics often being recorded as Papists or Romanists was the requirement of different funeral practices for catholics. After this cemetery was closed it was landscaped and remained a green space for many years. The land now has buildings on it. Here is a map showing Liverpool Workhouse and St Mary's Cemetery in the 1840s:-

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102344096#zoom=6&lat=2029&lon=7073&layers=BT


Blue