Who were Ellen JOEL's parents? Confused of Upton cum Chalvey

[Trees]

I am just wondering if the first lady was named Maacah I have several girls with this name in one family line and often they have been listed as Martha or by some strange spelling. My oldest Maacah was married to a Parish Clerk so definitely not Jewish.
Trees

[nanny jan]

A certificate or two might help solve this! 


Nanny Jan

[Keith Sherwood]

Daisy,
At this moment I'm only taking the children's birth years from the respective Censuses, so there could well have been more births and perhaps deaths in infancy.
That Makala (as I have interpreted it in the 1881 Census) is indeed an unusual forename, Trees, and I am by no means certain of its accuracy.
And Nanny Jan,  a certificate or two would certainly solve one or two conundrums here, but I'm not sure whether the elderly gentleman in Devon would be willing to stump up all that extra money...
What puzzles me as well is that I cannot get a sighting of this JOEL family in the 1861 Census, either,
keith

[johnnyboy]

Hi Keith and others: From FreeBMD. Marriage of Henry House Joel (both names in the entry) and Mahalah Griggs June qtr 1873 Eton Vol. 3a Pg 629

Looks like the 1881 census enumerator may have neglected to write Henry House Joel's full name. Or he was in the process of changing his name?

Family Search's 1881 British census has spelling Mahala.

Also from FreeBMD
Mahala Griggs    
born  Mar qtr 1853 in Bishops Stortford   
vol. 3a   pa 169

Henry Joel
born  Sep qtr 1851  in Brentford
vol. 3   pg 1

Henry Francis   Joel 
born  Mar qtr 1851   in  St Pancras   
vol. 1   pg 365

I live in a "little" town at GMT minus 5 where people like to land very large aeroplanes in the middle of rivers on the coldest day of the year, so I'm not up on the exact birth locations of the two Henry Joels. Of course I know that St. Pancras is in London, and we have a church of the same name over here, not far from where I live. I've heard this church's name pronounced as St. Pancreas (the hymns are played on an internal organ--har de har har). So I would favor that Henry Joel if not for the middle name of Francis that goes with it. I vote for Henry Joel born Sep qtr 1851. He would still be 29 on census night/day in 1881.

There was an Alfred Henry Joel born in 1853, but no Henry Joels born 1852.

Rebecca Joel born Alverstoke Jun qtr 1857

Hope this helps,
John 

[johnnyboy]

Hello again--and so soon: I might be just confused here, but I may have to rescind my vote for the Henry Joel born Sep qtr 1851 and without the middle name Francis as the Henry Joel being sought.

I re-read the entire thread and decided to check the IGI for Henry Joel births. The only IGI birth is Henry Francis Joel, and he is listed as the son of a John Joel (note John) and Martha (no surname). But when I checked FreeBMD for the marriage of John Joel, only one in Rotherham and one in Sheffield were returned in the Sep 1850 and Dec 1850 qtrs, respectively, were returned, and neither of those was to a Martha House

Perhaps Henry Joel was born out of wedlock. He must have been FreeBMD if  is correct about Joseph Joel and Martha House marrying in 1852 and Henry being born in 1851. That might also explain why he used House in the 1881 census. Wouldn't it?

Edit: Keith: I read the thread a third time and noticed that you also thought Henry might have been born out of wedlock. Not a case of my plagiarizing you, but a case of great minds thinking alike.  

Regards,
John 

[osprey]

possible birth reg for Henry?
Henry House march qtr 1852 Uxbridge vol 3a pg 11
Uxbridge covered Hillingdon which was given as his place of birth on 1871 census.

 

[Keith Sherwood]

John,
Congratulations on a splendid piece of detective work from - can't quite work out from where in the world you might be!
Anyway, that 1873 marriage for a Henry House JOEL and a Makala GRIGGS looks exactly the right one.  I wonder what the origin of her forename is then, might it be biblical; it doesn't appear in my Oxford Names Companion.
I think the 1852 Dec quarter marriage between a Henry JOEL and a Martha HOUSE in the Staines Reg. district must be the correct one too for this family.
And I think that the likelihood that Martha had Henry before that marriage took place, is the best theory at the moment.
But I wonder under what strange mistranscription the family of parents Henry and Martha, and children Henry and Rebecca appear in the 1861 Census, somewhere in the area of Staines or possibly now Eton or Slough.  Perhaps I need to do some Census walking with my fingers...
keith

[Keith Sherwood]

Osprey,
Sorry, posts crossing in the ether!  This thread is being more finely tuned by the minute - that looks even more logical than the 1851 birth for a Henry JOEL in Brentford, for I would imagine it would be more likely that a child born out of wedlock to Martha would have been given her surname.
Now, can anyone find them in the 1861...?
Thanks so much for finding that,
keith

[osprey]

transcribed as Jock 

1861 Dawley, Harlington RG9/764 folio 72 pg 17
Joseph Joel head mar 30 labourer b. Middx, Stanwell
Martha wife 28 b. ?
Henry son 8 b. Uxbridge
Rebecca dau 4 b. Harlington
Thomas brother 24 labourer b. Stanwell
James Davis lodger 40 b. ?