Who were Ellen JOEL's parents? Confused of Upton cum Chalvey

[Keith Sherwood]

Hi, Everyone.
Recently said I'd try and find out all I could about his grandmother for an elderly gentleman living down in Devon.  But I never thought it would turn out as complicated as this...
So, his gran Ellen JOEL, who married a Harry Thomas THATCHER in 1898, can be seen as an 18 year-old servant in Upton cum Chalvey in the 1891 Census.
But in the 1881 Census, there she is with her apparent family, but their names list as follows:
Henry House, head
Makala House, his wife, followed by three children aged between 6 and 5 months, all with the HOUSE surname.
Then follows Joseph JOEL aged 19, brother; Thomas JOEL aged 12, brother; and then appears Ellen JOEL, aged 8, sister...   Census ref: RG11/ 1460

Now, I realise that these last three individuals could possibly be siblings of Makala, the wife.  But when I searched for a marriage between a Henry HOUSE and someone called Makala in the area, the only one I could come up with was a Henry James HOUSE marrying a Zilpah Sophia HESTER in the Eton registration district in Dec. quarter vol 3a page 755...

The family legend is that Ellen JOEL may have been from a Jewish family, so is there something I should know about the way Jewish families name their individual members.  In fact, are any of these forenames I have quoted Jewish in origin.
Totally confused, any suggestions...?
keith 

[nanny jan]

Hi Keith,

From the IGI:

Christening:

Ellen Joel  11 Aug 1872, Upton cum Chalvey, Bucks

Parents:  Joseph Joel & Martha

An extracted record

Also from FreeBMD:

Births:

Ellen Joel   SepQ 1872    Eton  3a   463


Nanny Jan

[Daisy Loo]

RG10; Piece: 1401; Folio: 125; Page: 52

This is the 1871 census for Joseph & Thomas

Doesn't solve the mystery of why they were living with HOUSE, but it does show the parents were

[nanny jan]

Here's Thomas from the IGI:

Christening:

Thomas Alfred Joel   17 Nov 1868  Upton cum Chalvey, Bucks


Parents:   Joseph Joel & Martha

Also   Martha   5 May  1870

         William   17 May 1870    both at Upton cum Chalvey


Nanny Jan

[Daisy Loo]

although some of the names may be typically Jewish, (ie Joseph, Rebecca...) if they were christened, they wouldn't have been Jewish, at least not practising!

[nanny jan]

A clue?

Marriage:

Joseph Joel     Dec 1852   Staines   3a    15       (From FreeBMD)

possible bride: Martha House


Nanny Jan

[Keith Sherwood]

Ladies! Nanny Jan and Daisy Loo,
You're both wonderful!  And that last post surely must contain the clue to why Ellen and siblings were in the HOUSE household (so to speak).  I've got to pop out for a couple of hours, but I'll be back to chew things over with you later.
Very many thanks,
keith

[Keith Sherwood]

Right, I've had time to take a long cool look at this, and after the marriage in Dec quar. 1852 between Joseph JOEL (son of a James JOEL and a Sarah in the 1841 Census in Stanwell, Mx) and a Martha HOUSE, these children were produced: Henry JOEL b. 1852; Rebecca JOEL b. 1856; Joseph JOEL in 1862; Thomas JOEL in 1869; and Ellen JOEL in 1873.
So, it looks as though by the 1881 Census that the individual baptised as Henry JOEL is calling himself Henry HOUSE, and that Joseph, Thomas and Ellen are indeed his brothers and sister, but still using their JOEL name.
Have I read somewhere that Jewish people sometimes take on their mother's surname, or am I completely going mad here...? 
keith
p.s. The other possibility I've just noticed is perhaps that Henry, b. 1852 might have already been born to his mother Martha HOUSE before Joseph and Martha were married in late 1852, and may already have taken his mother's name...

[Daisy Loo]

There are very big gaps between the children aren't there!

I don't know about taking on the surname of the mother, but certainly children  are Jewish from their mother.  Ie, if a Jewish woman married a non-Jewish man, the children would be Jewish, whereas if a Jewish man married a non Jewish woman, they would not be.  Martha is certainly not a Jewish name per se...it comes from the New Testament.

Nothing about the namess really rings any Jewish bells but who knows they could have changed them.