Phillips look-up please

[murraymint]

Hi
A look up please
I have been trying to find the birth of my Gt Grandfather
John George Shaw Phillips born abt 1861 in Co Down. on the 1911 census
His father was William Phillips
John married Agnes Spencer in 1889 Liverpool,
 Thank you
Ann

[aghadowey]

Unfortunately civil registration of births began in 1864 so there will be no birth certificate fo John Phillips. To find a church record (if it exists) you need to know the family's religion and where they lived (parish if not actual townland not just 'Co.Down').

[murraymint]

Hi aghadowey

Thank you for your prompt reply
I know John was married at St Mark's Church of England
On the marriage, a witness was William Cleland Phillips
I believe John's younger brother.
I will search for William hopefully he might of left more information
Thanks again
Ann

[RosemaryJoan]

I think this is William's birth:
26 May 1868 William John Phillips
father Samuel Cleland (!) Phillips
mother
Eleanor Gray
Ballymacarret,Belfast,Co. Down.
Though I think the father's name is wrong
Will have a look for their marriage.
RosemaryJoan

[murraymint]

Hi RosemaryJoan

I have found William Cleland  Phillips on the 1891 Census, gives his age has 28 so was born abt 1863
I think William was married to Florence Edith Liddy at St Catherine's Church 1899.
So I will need to obtain this marriage certificate.
On the Ancestry site the is a record of William C Phillips and Florence Liddy
But I am unable to view this record has I do not have World Deluxe membership
So maybe  they are in America.
Thank you so much, for searching William birth.
I appreciate all your help
Ann

[RosemaryJoan]

Here are the only three William Phillips marriages that I can find in Co. Down:
21/2/1860 William Phillips to Henrietta Wilson in Saintfield Church of Ireland, Saintfield Parish
13/8/1852 William Phillips to Catherine Conovan or Connoway in Tullylish C of I, Tullylish Parish
25/11/1856 William Phillips to Alicia Clawson in Seaford Presbyterian Church, Loughinisland Parish

I can only find children born to William and Catherine after Civil registration
Catherine in 1867 and
David in 1870
and since they married in 1852, by the law of averages, they would have had children before civil registration
In Griffiths Valuation 1863 there is a William Phillips listed

Hopes this helps in some way.  RosemaryJoan

[murraymint]

I went to Liverpool Library today and found William Cleland Phillips 35 and Florence Edith Liddy 22 marriage(1899)
William's father was a farm Labourer, he lived at his brothers Address
Looks like william was born abt 1864

John Phillips named his first daugther Alicia Alice, maybe after his mother.
Could you tell me more about Griffiths Valuation
Where could I search it?
Thank you again Rosemary Joan
Ann

[OTTO]

Sorry to cut in here, the web addy for griffiths valuation search is :
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_form.php

Good luck
OTTO

[kingskerswell]

Ann,
      You have now got a link to Griffiths. This survey was a very detailed property valuation carried out through all of Ireland between about 1848 and 1864. It was done to stop the arguments which other incompetent or even dishonest surveys had resulted in after the Irish Poor Law (workhouses)
Act was passed. The principle was that the land holders had to pay for the poverty. It's main value is that it lists every householder and his landlord and is used in lieu of the lack of official census in Ireland. It is one of a series of documents known as the Census Substitutes.

Regards