John Bull missing from home 1841 census. Where is he?

[GeoffB]

John Bull was 17 according to IGI Holy Trinity Christening Jul 1824 and seems to appear in the YorkshireBMD.org  marriage to Harriet Vickers 1851 at All Saints, Sculcoates, where what could be his brothers William, Robert and James were also married 1850/51

So Im thinking in the 1841 census John may have been an apprentice /living with someone else in Hull.
I've had no joy with FreeCen
Any ideas?

For your info, the family in 1841 was listed :
1841 England Census
Robert Bull  (Listed as Buk, Image shows Bull )
Name: Robert Bull Age: 50  Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Male 
Civil Parish: Holy Trinity, Hundred: York (Ansty)  Yorkshire, England  Street address:   School Street
Occupation: Coachman HO 107/1231/9
Registration district: Kingston upon Hull 
Sub-registration district: Myton 
Household Members:
Robert Bull 50  Coachman
Ann Bull 50 
Henry Bull 19  Coach Trimmer
Robert Bull 15  Book Binder
George Bull 13
William Bull 11 
James Bull 8 
John Ergle/Bryte 40  Coach Trimmer

Cheers
 
Geoff

[Ecneps]

Hi Geoff,

Do you know that he was still alive in 1841?  Can't see him then or in 1851
Sorry just re-read about his marriage, will look again!

Barbara 

[Ecneps]

Marriage registration
Jun 1850  Sculcoates    22   476
Bull    John         Vickers  Harriet        

Wondering if they emigrated?  Do you have any later census for them?

Barbara

[Ecneps]

It might help to know his occupation from the marriage cert. 

In 1841 there's a John Bull, male servant aged 17, not born in county, in the household of John Payne, Innkeeper, Market Place, Leicester
HO107/605/6 Folio 25  Page  8

There's also one aged 18 Baker Journeyman in Streatham and another aged 18 a woollen labourer in Westbury Wilts, neither born in county

Barbara 

[GeoffB]

Thanks Barbara

"still alive in 1841?"  Good question.
I  haven't seen the marriage documentation so don't know. I think there are very few John Bulls about Hull, and to have a christening and marriage at a suitable interval is rather compelling but not definitive.
There are no John Bull deaths at YorkshireBMD between 1837 and 1842 and none in the IGI FamilySearch. FreeBMD list one in 1842 Todmorden West Riding - after the census

"It might help to know his occupation from the marriage cert."
This may be my best choice as it would confirm parents.

"Jun 1850  Sculcoates    22   476
Bull    John         Vickers  Harriet "
Oops i said 1851, my error thanks      

Emigrated?
Thats a possibility, worth checking.. Perhaps after the marriage in 1850 but that doesn't locate him 1841

later census ? -
FreeCen 1861 have a John Bull 36 wife Harriot 37 and children all born in Staffordshire - Wolverhampton - not the ones
No luck on FreeCen 1841, 1851, 1871.  I don't think their records are complete.  Searching from Australia complicates matters hence my use of rootschat - and what a help its been in the past!

"John Bull, male servant aged 17, not born in county in the household of John Payne Innkeeper, Market Place, Leicester"
-Interesting, correct age, though a long way from home. Still his father was a coachman even back in 1822 in Hull (Pigots), perhaps there were links that far away...

"One aged 18 Baker Journeyman in Streatham"
-I have no links to London. These seem to have been Northerly Bulls, with possible earlier links to Scotland - if anything - as his brother Henry Bull lived in Greenock for  the 1851 census and had several children in Scotland between 1847 and 1852. Back in Hull for 1861 census.

Can I please ask where you found the above references you made? 
I guess Im thinking he must be somewhere.  I will have to get more information about the family ...

Geoff

[Ecneps]

Hi Geoff,

"still alive in 1841?"  Good question.  Yes, but I did edit that to say I saw he had married!

"It might help to know his occupation from the marriage cert."
This may be my best choice as it would confirm parents. I think his marriage cert is a must, although he may well have changed occupations by then

"John Bull, male servant aged 17, not born in county in the household of John Payne Innkeeper, Market Place, Leicester"
-Interesting, correct age, though a long way from home.  It was just a possibility, I have several ancestors who worked some distance (in service) from home before marriage, and Leicester is nearer to Hull than the other two!

his brother Henry Bull lived in Greenock for  the 1851 census and had several children in Scotland between 1847 and 1852.  haven't checked Scotland!

Can I please ask where you found the above references you made?

HO107/1068/3 Folio  5 Page  5   Streatham Common, Streatham, Surrey
in household of John Theobald, Baker
John Bull 18  Baker Journeyman not b. in Surrey

HO107/1188/4 Folio 57  Page 2  New Town, Westbury,Wiltshire
in household of John Swayore? Labourer
John Bull  18  Woollen Lab   not b. Wiltshire

Of course, he could just be mistranscribed somewhere, but have had a good look for variations of the name, maybe someone else will spot him


Barbara 

[Ecneps]

Well I can't find him in any census, anywhere.  Nor can I find a marriage for the Staffordshire Bulls, is it at all possible, I wonder, that they married in Hull?  I know two of their children were born before 1850 but it could have been a second marriage. 

I can't see a Harriet Vickers in the Hull area before 1850 either, it's quite a puzzle.  If you do decide to get the marriage cert, would be most interested to know what it says

Barbara 

[GeoffB]

Thanks for your effort and thought Barbara. You could be right about the Stafforshire Bulls marrying in Hull, but it seems to be a complex solution.   A simpler explanation could just be  'there are holes in the census'.
I will get a copy of the marriage cert. - it may take some weeks- and post it here.

Cheers

Geoff