Joseph Thompson - Magheragall - family help!

[fmni]

My g.g. grandmother, Sarah Thompson was born on the 1st February 1873 to Joseph Thompson and Jane Forsythe (date taken from LDS listings)

She had at least two siblings as listed on LDS:

Ellen (born 5th Jan 1868)
James (born 22nd May 1871)


Joseph Thompson on his marriage certificate was a farmer from Magheragall, Lisburn and Jane Forsythe, the daughter of a farmer called John Forsythe from Magheralave, Lisburn. Joseph Thompson's father was also called John, and indeed was also a farmer from Magheragall.

Joseph Thompson and Jane Forsythe were married at Derriaghy Church of Ireland on the 23rd January 1867.

Interestingly, on their marriage certificate both are widowed from previous marriages. Delving a little deeper, I think that Joseph Thompson's first marriage may have been to a Jane Oliver, in Magheragall Church of Ireland on the 24th December 1852. (However there a two other Joseph Thompsons living in the Maghergall area in the Griffiths valuation which makes me question this slightly but I'm pretty sure this will turn out to be hist first marriage) They had at least one child, born in 1865 but no name is recorded for this child on the LDS records which makes me think that Jane Oliver and the child may have died at childbirth.

Now, as for Jane Forsythe's first marriage - it was to another Thompson - and i think may well have been a brother of Josephs, but I can't confirm this.

Jane Forsythe married James Telford Thompson on the 10th Aug 1859 in Derriaghy Church of Ireland - this fits in nicely with Margaret Jane Thompson being born in 1861 and going on to marry Robert Macleod - Margaret Jane, I always thought was a full sister of Sarah, but now makes sense she was a half sister because they named their first child "James Telford Thompson Macleod"

Now for the help, as mentioned there are three Joseph Thompson's that appear in the Griffith's Valuation for Magheragall:

Thompson         Joseph           Ballyellough          Magheragall     
Thompson         Joseph           Kilcorig              Magheragall     
Thompson         Joseph           Knocknadona           Magheragall

I believe that two of these appear in the Wills Calenders on the NIPRO website:

Probate of the Will of Joseph Thompson late of Ballyellough County Antrim Farmer who died 9 August 1901 granted at Belfast to Joseph Thompson Farmer

I don't believe the above Joseph Thompson will turn out to be my G.G. Grandfather and have checked the 1911 census to see his son Joseph living still at the Ballyellough farm.

The Will of Joseph Thompson late of Knocknadona County Antrim Farmer who died 5 January 1886 at same place was proved at Belfast by Thomas Maxwell of Moneybroom in said County Farmer one of the Executors.

This one I feel is more promising but don't know where to take it from here - what is my best plan of action to find more information on the family - things I'm particularly keen to find out:

- Children of Joseph Thompson and Jane Forsythe other than Sarah and James
- Details of any offspring from either Joseph or Jane's first marriage - also the marriage certs/details from their first marriages
- The information that may be stored on the three Joseph Thompson's that appear in the Magheragall area in the Griffiths valuation
- Any potential information or leads into siblings or parents of either Joseph or Jane.


If anyone could give me any further information or point me in the right direction. Also feel free to look into the family - a fresh pair of eyes would be very welcome!!


Regards,
Mark

[jwaugh]

Hi Mark

If you contact PRONI they should be able to look up the will of the Joseph Thompson you are interested in.  Proni have manuscript copies of all Wills from 1854 to 1900 on microfilm. They should be able to copy the appropriate pages for you of course at a price and post it to you if you can't get to Belfast. They also hold the original Wills and letters of Administration from 1900 to seven years from present day. ie 2002.

You should be able to get information of children even brother and sister from the will if you are lucky.

John

[aghadowey]

Wills, and paperwork to do with the estate of someone who died intestate, can be a great source or information or a big disappointment. Have found several that just say everything is left to 'my beloved wife' with no name mentioned or 'to be divided equally amongst my surviving children.'

[kingskerswell]

John,
       I do not think that PRONI have detail of all wills on microfilm. I think that all that they have is what is published on the Proni website. As I understand it wills were held by local registries for about 20 years and then lodged with thje main registry in Dublin where they were lost in the Four Courts fire in 1922.

Regards

[aghadowey]

PRONI has put Will extracts from Armagh, Belfast and Londonderry probate offices 1858-c1900 online. The actual Wills were destroyed but the Will Books survive and have been copied onto microfilm. They do not have the paperwork to do with settling estates for that period.
For example: John Smyth died 1870 leaving a Will which was probated that year in Belfast. A clerk copied the wording of his Will into a book. The Will and the paperwork were destroyed but the Will Book survives. If I go to PRONI I can view a microfilmed copy of the Will Book.
Next example: William Johnston died 1870 intestate (leaving no Will). The paperwork was destroyed and there is nothing in Will Book so only record is what's recorded in Will Extracts.

PRONI have on file Wills probated in Armagh, Belfast and Londonderry after 1900 and files on estates where there was no Will.
Example: Thomas McKeown died 1910 leaving a Will. Entry is in Will Extract books in PRONI, and they also have Will and paperwork to do with settling the estate (details vary but can be inventories, oaths sworn by executors, etc.).
Example (other examples were made up but this one from my files): William Chestnutt, a widower, died 1902 leaving two minor children but no Will. The information PRONI have on file include letters from his sister asking for custody of the children and what other relatives there were (including several in America).

[jwaugh]

Hi Kingskerswell

Yes PRONI have manuscript copies for all Will from 1858 to 1900. They are called Copy Will Books.
I have been able to look at some which have been very helpful. The reference is MIC 15C.
 Apparently some one transcribed them before they went to Dublin. Yes the original will were lost in the Four Courts fire in 1922.

http://www.proni.gov.uk/your_family_tree_series_-_07_-_wills_and_testamentary_records.pdf

Thanks Aghadowey I think you explained it better.

John

[kingskerswell]

Aghadowey, John,
                            Many thanks. I have been to PRONI several times and thought that the only info they had was what you could look up in their computers, the info which is now on line. Next time I go I will have a look. However, a question, why should a comparitively small farmer in Co. Londonderry have his will proved in the Dublin Registry Office rather than that at Londonderry. He was a Protestant and died a fairly man, leaving about £2500 in 1902 while his contempories were leaving about £500. I can find no evidence of any other business?

Regards

[akanex2]

Before 1858 when the courts took responsibility for the administration of wills etc, they were dealt with by officials in each diocese of the (then established) Church of Ireland - e.g. diocese of Derry for Co Londonderry (except Coleraine east of Bann), Inishowen in Co Donegal and parts of north and west Co Tyrone.  If a testator had property in more than one diocese it had to be dealt with in Dublin.

I presume when the government created the registry districts in 1858 a similar system was also adopted - i.e. if a Co Londonderry farmer had assets in both Derry and Antrim, he would have to use Dublin Registry office rather than Londonderry or Belfast.

BTW some of my "comparatively small farmer in Co Londonderry" ancestors were leaving estates closer to £100 in value, so your £2500 guy was very well off indeed!  Perhaps he held other lands in neighbouring counties which you will discovery in the copy will books - happy hunting.

[fmni]

Now for the help, as mentioned there are three Joseph Thompson's that appear in the Griffith's Valuation for Magheragall:

Thompson         Joseph           Ballyellough          Magheragall     
Thompson         Joseph           Kilcorig              Magheragall     
Thompson         Joseph           Knocknadona           Magheragall

I believe that two of these appear in the Wills Calenders on the NIPRO website:

The Will of Joseph Thompson late of Knocknadona County Antrim Farmer who died 5 January 1886 at same place was proved at Belfast by Thomas Maxwell of Moneybroom in said County Farmer one of the Executors.

This one I feel is more promising but don't know where to take it from here - what is my best plan of action to find more information on the family - things I'm particularly keen to find out:

Well, i managed to make a rare visit to NIPRO today. Just before I left I remembered I had been interested in this will - looked it up and the full record is available and goes into quite a bit of depth. Unfortunately it isn't the Joseph Thompson of Magheragall that I was interested in - or at least doesn't appear to be based on the names mentioned.

A brief summary of the will (in case someone else ends up researching this family):

- Left his household, furniture and stock to his wife Anne
- Every item was left to Anne, except for his watch, plough and 'wimowing machine'?
- In her death, house goes to Joseph's brother, Arthur Thompson
- The profits of any auction and the house is to be split between Joseph Thompson son of said brother Arthur also...
- Three sisters of Joseph, Elizabeth Benson, Fanny Belshaw and Mary Willis
- Finally mentioned in the will is Maggie Frances Thompson and Marjory Thompson - "daughters of my deceased nephew William Thompson"

Plenty of names there, but none of which add up to the Joseph Thompson of Magheragall that im trying to trace. If anyone wants to keep the ball rolling on this feel free - also if you want to do look ups of the above family and the names mentioned it may be good for anyone in the future who may be interested in this family.