1851/1861 CENSUS CAMBERWELL PENNYFATHER'S

[carol8353]

Yes as you say Johnathan very difficult to read- next door is Mr Jones Cottage,The Copse, near the City.That area of Harrow Weald is now known as Old Redding.
The pub called the Case is Altered is there and Grimsdyke,the Gilbert and Sullivan house.

I was born just along the road from there- but only last year did I discover it was called The City 

Hope this helps

Carol

[Biker]

Excellent detective work Carol, I must admit I thought I saw something like Mr Jones Cottage and The City but couldn't figure it out  and didn't want to make an idiot of myself by guessing

Thanks for sorting that out.
Jonathan

[JFK]

Hi Jonathan
Many thanks for the info on the Pennyfather family living in Harrow Weald in 1861. It is the right family but it's Thomas's twin brother's family  that I'm looking for.  Henry, the twin, was drowned in 1839 but he had a wife and daughter both called Elizabeth.  In 1871 both of them were living in the same house as Thomas's family still in Harrow Weald but I've no idea where they were before that.
Again many thanks for the 1861 info.  It's brought a new name into the tree now - Rogers - the surname of the nephew.
Kind regard Jan

[carol8353]

Hi Jan

So we have a starting point in our search for Elizabeth Pennyfather snr and jnr
I will post them here in 1871,it might help someon to find them in 1861 or 51!

E Pennyfather W  1821  Surrey, England Head  Harrow  Middlesex   
E Pennyfather U  1843  Surrey, England Daughter  Harrow  Middlesex 

Is the date of birth of young Elizabeth correct.........4 years after her dad died???

I'll have a look for them myself later.

Cheers

Carol 

[JFK]

Hi Carol
Sorry about the year of birth for Elizabeth the daughter.  It should have been c.1839 - the year in which her father was found drowned. I went to a party last night and although not hung over my brain must be a little bit scrambled!!
Thanks for the help.
Kind regards Jan

[carol8353]

Hello Jan

I'll whisper incase your head hurts

Do you know about Grimsdyke? It was the home of W S Gilbert ,and is very near to where your Pennyfathers were living in 1861.

See info about it here,including how Gilbert died,he drowned trying to save two girls swimming in his lake http://www.grimsdyke.com/hist.htm
A pal of mine had his wedding reception there 10 years ago.

I was born in the 50's  in the same road- about a mile further down the hill.

Have a good day

Carol

[JFK]

Hi again Carol
No I know absolutely nothing about Harrow Weald - other than the name but I will have a look at the web site and find out more.  I was born in 1945 west of London - Hillingdon - moving out to Buckinghamshire with my parents when I was 11 so what memories I have are of the old A40 corridor - Greenford, Hayes, Uxbridge, Acton & Ealing.  Close
Thanks for your offer to help find my illusive Elizabeths'.  I'm not even sure if Elizabeth Snr married Henry.  In the 1871 she is down as being unmarried but then she had been widowed for 30 odd years so probably no longer considered herself a widow.  It would be interesting to find them on the 1861.  I do wonder if she was still living in the Camberwell area.  I have found an Elizabeth Pennyfather having a son - Henry - in the Camberwell Workhouse in 1845.  No father was mentioned on the birth certificate and it was 5 years after her husband's death.  But was it her and did she name him after her dead husband?   Aged 12 and with 7 previous convictions, a Henry Pennyfather was prosecuted for steeling 12lbs of horse hair and detained for four months in a house of correction and a further four years after that in a reformatory institution.  If he was her son she wasn't too hot on the parental guidance was she?  This woman is really intriguing me.  I wish I knew what she looked like and what sort of life she led.  From what I've read Camberwell was a rather salubrious place, full of gin palaces and whore houses so p'raps it's best I don't know.
Many thanks and kind regards
Jan