1851/1861 CENSUS CAMBERWELL PENNYFATHER'S

[JFK]

Hello All 
Can SKS please help me before I go mad.  I'm so befuddled with names and dates and looking for people who don't seem to have been born that I'm desperate.
I'm looking for a HENRY PENNYFATHER born in 1815 in St GILES, CAMBERWELL.  He had a twin brother called THOMAS who I have found living in HARROW WEALD in 1871 with this wife and two children.  Also living in the same house is an E PENNYFATHER head (Born c 1812),  and an E PENNYFATHER daughter (Born c 1845). The E in both instances I think stands for ELIZABETH.  E the head is down as being unmarried, but I think there is a connection here between her and the HENRY I'm looking for. I've not been able to find a marriage certificate or a birth certificate for the daughter.  Both are said to have been born in Surrey.  I have however found a HENRY PENNYFATHER born in 1845 in the CAMBERWELL WORKHOUSE.  No father was mentioned on the birth certificate but again I have a feeling that there is a connection.   His mother is down as ELIZABETH, his name HENRY (after his father?) and being born in CAMBERWELL could mean something.  Tentative I know but I'm desperate.
Is there anyone who could do a 'lookup' for me and see if they can find this family or any tips on where I go from here?  I've exhausted all the more well known sites on the web and have a complete data base of all the Pennyfather (and derivatives) BM & D records since they began - nothing
One other question.  Are institutions detailed on the 1851, 1861 & 1871?
Many thanks
Kind regards Jan 

[Rick]

Jan

I have checked the complete Camberwell 1851 Census Index - HO107/1580-1582, but I couldn't find any listings for PENNYFATHER I'm afraid. 

Workhouses are included on census returns, but family groups are often not listed together, and occasionally an enumerator will just put the inmates initials down.

Rick

[JFK]

Hi Rick
Thanks for looking for me.  It looks as if I'm going to spend a few more sleepless nights before I untangle this mystery.  You would never believe the problems they have caused me.  Right from the very beginning as well. It seems that my grandmother, for reasons I shall never know changed her birthdate from the 31 July to the 4 August.  Her father disappeared, her sister's birth certificate shows the mother's name as Digglebury which doesn't exist as a name....and so it goes on.
Again many thanks for taking the time to look.  At least I know that Camberwell is one place where they weren't living
Regards Jan

[Rick]

Jan

Having said that they do not appear to have been in Camberwell in 1851, I have to tell you that parts of the return are in a very bad state, and are completely illegible.

Workhouse records are generally very good, and if Camberwell Workhouse records have survived, they will be held at the London Metropolitan Archives.  If you cannot visit in person, they do offer a research service, but they will charge for this.

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/corporation/leisure_heritage/libraries_archives_museums_galleries/JAS/lma/lma.htm

Rick

[JFK]

Hi Rick
Thanks for the tip.  I think that will have to be my next step.  Strange that I can find one twin but not the other.  Makes me wonder if he was in prison or had been deported.  If I could find a death certificate it would bring some sort of closure but nothing anywhere...I will not be beaten though, I will get to the bottom of it - one day.
Thanks and regards Jan

[carol8353]

This is the only Henry Pennyfather that appears on the partial index for 1861.

Pennyfather  Caroline  39  Pancras, Somers Town  109  55         
Pennyfather  Henry  41  Pancras, Somers Town  109  55         
 
Age is wrong ,but if you think he might be yours- yell.

I was born in Harrow Weald- too many years ago to waht to be reminded

Regards

Carol
 
 

[carol8353]

Have just had a play with your names and found this....from the 10% census sample,could they be yours? Enfield to Harrow is perfectly possible.

1851 United Kingdom Census Sample
 
Name Residence
(ED, County) Birth Place Gender Age
 
Ellen Pennyfather Enfield, Middlesex Middlesex, England, Enfield  Female  3 
Emily Pennyfather Enfield, Middlesex Middlesex, England, Enfield  Female  0.48 
Emma Pennyfather Enfield, Middlesex Middlesex, England, Enfield  Female  8 
George Pennyfather Enfield, Middlesex Middlesex, England, Enfield  Male  6 
John Pennyfather Enfield, Middlesex Hertfordshire, England, Wellwyn  Male  34 
Lydia Pennyfather Enfield, Middlesex Middlesex, England, Enfield  Female  31 
 

[JFK]

Hi Carol
Many thanks for the information you sent but unforunately none of them are my Pennyfathers.  The names I'm looking for are Thomas (husband) Emma (wife) Charlotte & Henry (children) and 2 Elizabeths - mother and daughter.  I've found them living in Harrow Weald in 1871 and in 1881 Henry living with his wife and family in Bushey.  It's the two Elizabeths who I'm interested in.  My great great grandmother and her daughter who were both born in Surrey and of course the illusive Henry, the twin brother of Thomas. He seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth !!  No record of his marriage or death which makes me think he may well have been deported.
I will have to keep looking.
Thanks again for your time
Kind regards Jan

[Biker]

Hi Jan

Not sure if you're still looking but for 1861 a possibility ...

Harrow Weald (the actual address is difficult to read, perhaps someone can have a look?)

Charlotte Pennyfather 1855  Harrow Weald, Middlesex, England Daughter 
Ellen Pennyfather 1851  Harrow Weald, Middlesex, England Daughter 
Emma Pennyfather 1815  Acton, Middlesex, England Wife 
Harriet Pennyfather 1847  Harrow Weald, Middlesex, England Daughter 
Henry Pennyfather 1853  Harrow Weald, Middlesex, England Son 
Joseph Pennyfather 1858  Harrow Weald, Middlesex, England Son 
Thomas Pennyfather 1815  Peckham, Surrey, England Head 
George Rogers 1839  Brewtford, Middlesex, England Nephew 

Thomas is a Potter?  Labourer (hard to read)

RG9/783
Folio:    10 
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Jonathan