Kate Eade - continued

[Daisy Loo]

Hi Jaymee...

have been pondering this mystery...(nothing better to do )

My opinion is this:  I don't think Kennedy O'Brien Morris was named after the father of the 3 children.  (I may have already said this before).  If Millie was so sure, that her mother didn't want her to know who her father is...her mother would have left no clues.  According to the descendant of Kennedy O'Brien Morris, he was named after the two doctors that delivered him.  A possiblity. 

But I think, Millie may have hoped the former was true, and that it was a clue, and so a story was told...family stories can be very much like chinese whispers. 

You have said yourself, that her boss was only ever referred to as Mister/Master...also, in the photo thread, you said, once they found out she was pregnant she was cruelly dismissed.  Not the best thing to happen...and not something you would forgive or forget.

So, I now I think, that the father of the 3 children could well have been the father of Millie, but I really don't think it's anything to do with Kennedy etc.  Besides which, if the Kennedy o Morris birth is correct, he was born in 1923 in Aylesbury some ten years after Millie had been born...so not only has she moved, but it is also a long time to hold on to a fond memory...

I think the 1911 census will reveal your family secret.  She would have been working for that family then...there would be no way of proving it for a fact...but it would be interesting to find out more about that family wouldn't it?

You asked in an earlier post if one of the 2 doctors could be the father...not likely...but you would need to find out from your new family member ( ) when and where Kenedy O'Brian was born.

Kate married Arthur in Hackney (/), and their first child together was born there...the 1901 census has her in Hounslow...so the 1911 census? where will she be then?

Poor Millie...it must have been hard for her....she would have thought that those 3 children were her half-siblings...

Just my thoughts for the evening!

Goodnight

[JAP]

Just a few more thoughts.

1. Jaymee, you say that "the grandson", with whom you are in email contact, is going to visit his grandfather - one post says that "the grandfather" is Millie's son but an earlier post indicates that "the grandfather" is Kate's son ...  We need to be very careful about revealing details of living persons here.  IF "the grandfather" is Kate's son (K.O'B.M) and still living, then his privacy should be respected. 

2.  There seems to be lots of family folklore some of which conflicts.  For instance, Millie had certain beliefs about the reason for her younger brother's given names; now we hear a different story.  There was the story about Kate being "cruelly dismissed" when it was found she was pregnant.  There was the story about Kate going into service at age 14 but at age 16 she's still at home (did she have an occupation in 1901?).  There was the story about Kate being about 18 in the photo but also that she was pregnant with Millie (who was born Dec 1912) at the time - which would make Kate (b Jun qtr 1885) about 27.  Family folklore is often far from reliable, and our opinions ...   

3. More information could possibly be elicited to lend weight or otherwise to the story about naming a child after two doctors who delivered the child.  For instance, was it reputed to have been a particularly difficult birth (two doctors in attendance ...)?  At that time, were there doctors of those surnames in the area where the child was born?  Any clues on that child's birth certificate?

4. Might "the grandfather" know the name of the family for whom his (?)mother/grandmother (whichever it is), Kate, worked?  Kate (EADE) MORRIS did not die until 1973.  Knowing the name of the family is not going to solve the mystery of Millie's father but would be just one more piece of information.

5. The Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN family might be a complete red herring - but, in case it is not, it seems to me that it is always worth remembering that Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN was not just the name of the paterfamilias but also of his eldest son.  IF further leads to the MARTYN family emerge, it might be worth looking at the 1922 divorce proceedings of KO MARTYN against his wife Alice

6. Jaymee, you have indicated on the photo thread that we have been looking at scans of copies of the photo.  It would seem to be a good idea to ask your aunt to search for the original in case it shows the name of the photographic studio which might give some clues.  Also whether a copy of the note without water damage can be found.

7. The full birth certificate for Millie, when it arrives, might have some useful clues.

8. Do you have Millie's marriage certificate?

9. And finally, it really would be interesting to see the birth cert of Philip J EADE, mother's name EADE (b Sep qtr & d Dec qtr Hackney 1911) - was this another child of Kate's?  IF it was, and depending on his birthdate, she might well have been pregnant and not working as a nanny at the time of the 1911 census ...

JAP
PS: Like Dennis, I did wonder why Kate was recorded as EADE and as William BENNETT's Stepdaughter in 1901 but Daisy and Ada were recorded as BENNETT and as William BENNETT's Daughters ...

[dennisrichards49]

Hi everyone

Jaymee answered a query of mine about Mary's daughters Daisy & Ada WHITE?BENNETT? off-line; thus

So I think the reason that Ada and Daisy are Named Bennett and not Whites, is that Mary fathered them to the loger Bennett (76 we think is a trascribion error).  But She didnt give them their real fathers name until she was out of scrutiny from Thomas White.

She has been so clear to name each child it's father's names, why does she change?

I thought I'd like others to ponder this if they wish (although most may be exhausted with this thread going by the many posts to date).  My response was:

As to your theory, I'm not so sure:
On the 1891 census Thomas White is already missing. Remember Daisy was born in Ash, Surrey where Mary & Thomas White married.  William Bennett was never there; he was always around Hounslow/Sunbury. Almost certainly she later married her lodger William BENNETT who in 1891 was aged about 46 not 76! Enumerator's error!
Maybe Thomas White was indeed the father of Daisy & Ada but later (and by 1901) William Bennett had adopted them (formally or informally) under his name.  This still allows Mary to be true to her principle of naming the father with her children's surnames.

There is an Ada White birth in Brentford (ie Hounslow) that fits: Births Mar 1890 WHITE Ada Brentford    3a   62 (as posted earlier by avm228)
& a death of a Thomas White:
either:Deaths Mar 1890
White    Thomas    59    Brentford    3a   50   
or Deaths Dec 1890   
White    Thomas    60    Brentford    3a   39

I cannot find a suitable entry for daughter Daisy around 1888 in Ash, Surrey (Farnham, Farnborough) with any suitable surname.  Can anyone else?

Of course this is an important debate for Jaymee- whose grandparent (on this side) is the father of Ada; either Thomas White or William Bennett
Whatever the case as I have said to Jay it looks pretty certain we are 3rd cousins once removed. 
Thanks to JAP for getting me involved.
Dennis

[waiteohman]

Hello Dennis

There is a Daisy White birth registration also in Brentford, March 1890. In volume 3a, page 133.

Linda

[JAP]

Just a few more thoughts.

It would be interesting to find out what happened to all of the children of Mary HAWKINS.

We've not traced the first two children of Mary HAWKINS - Charles HAWKINS (1874) and Ellen (Nelly) HAWKINS (1875).

Or Horace ROE (1876 - though Dennis believes he has been found as Horace HAWKINS) or Alice ROE (1880)

Or Archie EADE (1881) or Rose EADE (1881).

All the above birth certs (and also possibly that of Arthur ROE b & d 1879) would be of interest.

Also the birth cert of Kate EADE (1885).

And the birth certs of Daisy WHITE and Ada WHITE would be of interest.

As would the marriage certs of Mary HAWKINS/EADE.
Marriage 1875, Mary HAWKINS and James ROE.
Marriage 1886, Mary EADE and Thomas WHITE (possibly a bigamous marriage as James ROE still seems to be living).
Marriage 1898, Mary EADE and William BENNETT (probably a legal marriage as both James ROE and Thomas WHITE seem to have passed away).

And the marriage cert of Millie EADE would be of interest.

As I said earlier, a win at the lottery would be good so that all the certs could be purchased!

JAP

[Billycourty]

Thanks Jap, just doing some more research and ordering some certs.

Will let everyone know when they arrive.

Jay

[dennisrichards49]

Hi JAL; we'd have to have a whip-around to afford all those certs!!

Here is my first 7 pounds worth: This is the Marriage Cert details of Mary Hawkins & James Roe:
Marriages Dec 1875 Roe James & Mary Hawkins Thakeham 2b 629

Marriage at Register Office in the District of Thakeham, County of Sussex No 11 on 27 Oct 1875 James Roe, of full age, bachelor, labourer of Pulborough; Father: James Roe (deceased), Shoemaker. Mary Hawkins, of full age, spinster, Pulborough; Father: Josiah Hawkins, Thatcher. Married in Register Office after Certificate before me James Henry Reed, Registrar. Witnesses are The mark of X George Smith and Elizabeth L Gorey; William Moate, Deputy Supt and Wm Thos Sandford Superintendent Registrar

Here's a question that's been bugging me since I read all this.  Mary EADE (an assumed surname from her deceased partner Caesar) married to Thomas WHITE (in Dec 1886) - I get this.  But why did she marry William BENNETT  (in Sep 1898)  also as Mary EADE ? Shouldn't she have been Mary WHITE?
 I'm thinking it was the same problem as when she was married to James ROE- remember he was still alive when she changed partners taking on Caesar EADE's surname. Perhaps Thomas WHITE was still alive also when Mary got the urge to move on to her 5th partner!  I don't think we know that Thomas WHITE was certainly dead in Sep 1898 do we?  Again the certificates are crucial to hopefully answer these questions.
Dennis

[Daisy Loo]

So, Ada & Daisy appeared to have their births registered at the same time?  Mar Qtr, 1890 Brentford?

[osprey]

JAP, I'd had the same thoughts about tracing the children of Mary and found a couple of possible death registrations if Mary registered them under the surname she was using at the time?
Alice Eade 3 june qtr 1883 Farnham vol 2a pg 68
Charles Eade 10 sept qtr 1884 Farnham vol 2a pg 61