Tavistock CROSSMAN

[Gossypium]

Hi.  John Crossman was born on 11 Oct 1846 as submitted to the IGI (FHL films 457050 & 445921) and per Robert Reid's notes (son-in-law) in my possession.  It appears John was not baptised, nor was his birth registered, but I have a scan of his death certificate which I can send you if you respond to my PM.  The Crossmans in Spain are helping me to draw up their family tree and we are learning quite a lot.  In fact John was not buried in the "Cemetery of the English" in Tharsis but the protestant section of the main Tharsis cemetery.  I can also tell you about Frederick Robert Crossman and his two children, but alas I think William John Crossman died young in Tharsis, but I am awaiting confirmation of that.  I have a letter written by your grandfather to his half-sister Elisa about 1930 from Saltash.  I am a descendant of James Eddy's sister Emma Victoria Crossman who married Robert Reid.  Looking forward to hearing from you by email and, yes, I would appreciate receiving either a scan or your transcription of James Eddy Crossman and Polly Lang's marriage certificate.

[Gossypium]

Hello DOB7

Joan CROSSMAN died aged 57 and was buried on 28 Mar 1803 at Lamerton.  Do your reference materials give any further information.  I have asked Brian Shepherd who has no further details just a simple table.

[Hemmum]

Hi Weald to Tamar
Welcome to Rootschat. I am sorry but I have also been unable to find a birth or baptism record for John born 1845. Some of the family were non-conformists and were baptised at Brook Street Independent. There are also some Crossmans in The Abbey Presbyterian records.
You noticed that there was a John Crossman registered 1845 in South Molton. On the 1861 census there is a John Crossman born abt 1801 who is possibly Roberts brother living (62) Bannerwell Street who's wife Mary was born 1805 in South Molton (I do not know who she was, not for the want of trying). There may a connection to the area. Might be worth sending for the certificate.
Don't apologize for long posts - have you seen mine!
Regards

[wealdtotamar]

Hello Hemmum,

Thanks for your message and thoughts about John (1845) or thereabouts.  I've had contact with Cotton Historian who has given me lots of info on John and the family, but the feeling is John's birth wasn't registered and neither was he baptised.  However, I'd also wondered about the non-conformist possibility.  I may have a look at the South Molton certificate although I think this is going to be another set of Crossmans, as there do seem to be clusters all over Devon -  Walkhampton (near Horrabridge, just south of Tavistock) and Chittlehampton west of South Molton for instance.

Thanks again - I'll plough on!

All the best

[Hemmum]

I have just received the marriage certificate for George Crossman’s second marriage 29 Oct 1848 at the Independent Chapel in the Tavistock Union to Mary Jane Carter. (His first marriage was to Mary Oats 1803-1836). His Fathers name is given as George Crossman a Labourer. The witness were Henry and Mary Ann Symons (I have looked on the census and the most likely candidates there are Simmons)

I think we can now be confident that in Tavistock there were two George Crossman’s who married an Elizabeth
George 1775-1840 a carpenter who married Elizabeth Ford and Robert Crossman born 1815 father George born 1779 died 1846 a Labourer who married Elizabeth (possibly Jago)

I can only find a baptism record for a George in 1806 son of George a carpenter mother is Elizabeth.

My questions are if anybody can help please
As George married at the Independent Chapel could he have been christened in a non-conformist church? I understand from the Devon Records Office Brook Street Independent records location is 2742 D/1,4,6,7,. Can anybody help?
From Georges burial record TE 340166 buried on 24 Feb 1858 aged therefore born 1804
(Perhaps we could also find the illusive Johns baptism there too!)

Could George be the son of George 1779 (the Labourer) and present at his fathers death in 1846 (therefore Roberts brother)?

His marriage was witnessed by Henry and Mary Ann Symons does anyone of their relationship to George or Mary Jane Carter?
Any help/ideas would be appreciated.
Regards

[Gossypium]

One of the baptisms of George Crossman and William Crossman in 1806 which are in the IGI and in the Tavistock PRs is likely to have been attributed by clerical error  to the wrong parents, George Crossman, carpenter, and Elizabeth Ford, and the other baptism likely should have been attributed to George Crossman, labourer, and Elizabeth Jago.  This is because one baptism is in April 1806 and the next in June 1806.

The death certificate of George Crossman, the labourer, on 2 Jun 1846 at Lower Back St Tavistock shows the informant is George Crossman.  George Crossman, the carpenter, died on 22 Jun 1840 at Two Bridges Tavistock and the informant was Philip Crossman.

George Crossman married Mary Oats on 20 Apr 1829 at Ilfracombe DEV per IGI Batch M051211.  The Devon OPC for Ilfracombe says that the Ilfracombe PRs contain entry 343 on 20 April 1829 (Banns) George Crossman ( Bach) soj in this parish   x his mark
Mary Oats (spin) of this parish Witts (Wm Richards) &(C Greenslade)

Baptism entries in Ilfracombe PRs of children of George, labourer, and Mary Crossman:
1239   Mary   b 6 July 1829
1343   Phillip Oats b 26Dec 1830
1490   George  b 16 Dec 1832

Hemmum has the certificate of the marriage of George Crossman, brickmaker, to Mary Jane Carter in 1848 at the Brook Street Independent Chapel in Tavistock which shows his father is George Crossman, labourer.

Regarding the baptism of William Crossman in 1806, there is an entry in the Stoke Damerel parish register records for the marriage of William Crossman, Carpenter, and Elizabeth Glass, Spinster, by Banns, on 10th November 1829.  The witnesses were Elizabeth Harris and another person whose surname appears to be 'Nettle'.  Unfortunately there is no indication of the name of William's father.  It appears that William and Elizabeth had a son, George William, baptised on 13 Mar 1832 at Plymouth St Andrew.  It would be good to confirm that this William Crossman is the son George Crossman, carpenter, and Elizabeth Ford, as it would support the possibility that George Crossman baptised in 1806 is the son of George Crossman, labourer, and Elizabeth Jago.

[Gossypium]

Can you help resolve a clerical error made in 1806 when there were two couples named George and Elizabeth Crossman living in Tavistock Devon.  One George was a carpenter and the other a labourer.  In the Tavistock PRs there were two baptisms in 1806:  on 19 Apr George Crossman and on 21 Jun William Crossman, both attributed to George the carpenter and his wife Elizabeth Ford.  We have reason to believe that George baptised on 19 Apr is actually the son of George the labourer and his wife Elizabeth Jago but it would help to confirm that William is the son of George the carpenter.

In the 1851 census of Plymouth Charles the Martyr, there is William Crossman aged 45, a carpenter, b. Tavistock and on the next page his wife Grace aged 40 b. Tavistock.  In the 1861 census Grace is widowed aged 57 (probably meaning 51) b. Morwellham.  Their deaths are registered:

Deaths Sep 1856 William CROSSMAN Plymouth vol. 5b page 127
buried aged 46 on 20 Jul 1856 at Ford Park Cemetery, last residence Garden Street Plymouth.
Deaths Dec 1869 Grace CROSSMAN aged 59 Plymouth vol. 5b page 189
buried aged 60 on 3 Oct 1869 at Ford Park Cemetery, last residence Green St Plymouth.

An entry submitted to the IGI indicates the marriage of William Crossman and Grace might have been in 1831 but it has not been found in Tavistock PRs.  Did they marry in Plymouth?

There is another William Crossman, also a carpenter, who married Elizabeth Glass (see below) who had a son George William baptised on 13 Mar 1832 at Plymouth St Andrew where he was buried 4 months of age on 1 Jul 1832.  I have not found the family in any census so cannot be sure of the ages or places of birth or if they had other children.

Grateful if you have any additional records of these families.

From: Devon Record Office
Subject: RE: Stoke Damerel Marriage PRs 1829

The entry in the Stoke Damerel parish register records the marriage of William Crossman, Carpenter, and Elizabeth Glass, Spinster, by Banns, on 10th November 1829.  I am afraid that I am unable to read the name of the Rector of the parish who performed the ceremony, but the register
was signed by both parties to the marriage.  The witnesses were Elizabeth Harris and another person whose christian name I cannot read but whose surname appears to be 'Nettle'.  I am unable to check the entry in the original register as it is held by the Plymouth and West Devon Record Office.

The reason for the appearance of two christian names for the bride on the IGI is that the bride's name was originally recorded in the register as 'Charlotte Glass', but this was crossed out and replaced with 'Elizabeth Glass'.

[rlsb]

Hello APHK  (reply #49 of Monday 29 June 09 17:33)

Reference 4-3-4. Annie Maud KINSMAN (b. Q3 1878 Tiverton, Devon 5b/430), daughter of John Crocker Kinsman b 1843 and Annie Hutchings – do you know any more about her ?

I am trying to place my grandmother Annie Maud (born c 1876 surname POBJOY, RODEN or quite possibly neither of those names). My Annie Maud gave birth to my mother in the military hospital in Cawnpore, India, 22 Sep 1911. She was possibly not married to the reported father.

I know nothing about her before 1911. Searching BMD has given me no convincing birth candidates with Pobjoy or Roden names.

Annie Maud is a distinctive (but not very unusual) pairing, so I am interested in any one of about the right age with these names.

Can you (or any reader) please tell me what became of Annie Maud Kinsman ?

[Gossypium]

Sorry, but I dont believe that your ancestors have any connection to the Kinsmans