Tavistock CROSSMAN

[Hemmum]

This is my first posting therefore please forgive any errors. I have been tracing my family using BDM certificates and census returns, now for Parish records! I have used Family Search but all the results are from "submitted" files which I am aware (through your very helpful forum search) are not totally reliable and need checking, which I would be really grateful for help/direction.

What I know from census/BDM is;
My paternal grandmother was Mary (Polly) CROSSMAN born 25th July 1855 Morwellhan Tavistock Devon.
Her father was Robert CROSSMAN Labourer born circa 1815 Tavistock died 1869 her mother was Eliza JAGOE born circa 1817 Tavistock.
On the 1841 and 1851 census the family were living in Brook Street, Buckland but in 1861 ? Murrel Lane Tavistock St Paul (I would appreciate clarification if possible). The last census entry I found is 1871 for Eliza (widow) occupation Charwoman as head of household at Tavistock St Paul's which I think is Morwelhan.
The only other fact I have is that on the 1851 census Robert CROSSMAN brother John CROSSMAN born 1801 Tavistock was living with the family.

This is where my calculations may be iffy and I need help / conformation. (submitted files)

I looked on family search for parents of two sons Robert (my ggranfather) and John and found a George CROSSMAN 1781-1846 married to Elizabeth 1778-1845 (no surname would love to know).
then George's parents
John CROSSMAN 1744-? married to Joan 1746-?
then John's parents
John CROSSMAN ? and Christian EASTLAKE ?

These names and dates could be very useful but (am I being greedy) are only names.
Sorry for the long message but thought I should give as much information as possible.
On my 2009 wish list is. Are these names correct? How can I find out more i.e. what Parish records can be checked? What more can I find out about these people (not very interesting I suppose but they are my family).

Thank you in advance for any help offered

[DOB7]

Robert CROSSMAN was baptised at Tavistock 20 Dec 1815, son of George & Elizabeth CROSSMAN of Higher Brook Street; father a labourer. Eliza JAGOE was not baptised at Tavistock as far as I can see.
George CROSSMAN married Elizabeth FORD 4 May 1799 at Tavistock.

[Hemmum]

Dear DOB
Thank you so much for your reply
Could you please let me know where you found the record for George Crossman married to Elizabeth FORD?
If  the record was from Family Search then these records show (submitted) that this George CROSSMAN born 1778 married Elizabeth FORD who was born 1772 but those records also show she was deceased 1811 which was 4 years before my Robert CROSSMAN (my gggfather) was born in 1815.
I think that Elizabeth FORD was married to my ggggfathers cousin and that they (George 1778 and my gggfather George Crossman 1781 who also married an Elizabeth ?) perhaps shared a grandfather John CROSSMAN. (there seemed to be a shorage of names in those days!!
 I think this is why I need to check /know/where to check the original records unless I am completely misreading the information.
Thank you again for your help

[DOB7]

My information comes from the parish registers for Tavistock, transcribed by the Devon Family History Society.
The IGI/LDS family search also gives this marriage date, and shows a baptism for George of 1776 which would match a 1799 marriage date. The baptism information for Robert in 1815 is definitely from the parish registers and clearly states George & Elizabeth. Elizabeth was not buried at Tavistock between 1813-1839.
Hope this helps.

[Hemmum]

Dear DOB7
Thank you for your help. It is great news that you confirm that Roberts born 1815 parents were definitely George and Elizabeth (although I still am not sure which of the two more of that below).  Can I get a copy of the Parish record and is there any more information available on the registration? How do you search the Devon Family HS records?

I have re-looked at my research and still need to keep looking.
The problem regarding which George and Elizabeth were his parents is that there are two George CROSSMANS both married to an Elizabeth on Family Search.
A) I believe is more likely
A) George Crossman born about 1781 Tavistock married Mrs Elizabeth Crossman about 1803 Tavistock Devon (so I am looking for a marriage about 1803 (but perhaps as early as 1801 due to the birth of their first child John 1801).

George's parents were John Crossman born 1744 and Joan born 1746

George and Mrs Elizabeth Crossman's seven children were;
John 1801 (perhaps christened 19 Feb 1804 Tavistock, he was living with Robert on the 1851 census), William 1802, Joan 1804, Mary 1807, Elizabeth 1810, William 1812, Robert 1815.

I would be interested to find if there are records of these births in Parish records.
George 1779 and Elizabeth 1778 were alive in 1841 and were on the same page as Robert 1815 living at Brook Street Tavistock. I believe they were Roberts parents. The other family at the same property is John Briant 1781 and Caroline Briant 1830 I know of no relationship but it is obviously possible and may be of interest.

B) George Crossman about 1776 married Elizabeth Ford born 1774 Tavistock
4 May 1799 Tavistock (this is the marriage you suggested which I doubt).

George's parents were William Crossman 1748 and Ann Rubby .

George and Elizabeth Ford three children were;
Elizabeth 1802, George 1806, William 1806 (neither Robert or his brother John).

There is only one George and Elizabeth on the 1841 census and as I mentioned they were living next door to Robert.
There is a death registered at Tavistock for George 1840 Tavistock Apr-June and Family search gives a burial date for Elizabeth Ford 7 Sep 1811 Tavistock (these I believe to be George and Elizabeth B)

So I still need to find out who Mrs Elizabeth Crossman was.
On family search there is a burial 12 August 1845 Tavistock and a similar entry BDM I have therefore ordered a death certificate that I hope may help.

[Gossypium]

Delighted to read your posts as I am a descendant of Robert CROSSMAN and Eliza JAGO, and their son John CROSSMAN who was born  in 1846 in Tavistock and died in 1918 in Tharsis Huelva Spain where there a small cemetery called the cemetery of the English containing several CROSSMAN graves.   In the 1871 census John CROSSMAN is found in Calstock Cornwall (living in the same road as William LANG who later married John CROSSMAN's sister Eliza).

Your queried the address in the 1861 census at which Robert CROSSMAN lived.  My interpretation of it is not Murrel Road but Morwelham.

Have you used a genealogy program to record your findings as I would welcome a GEDCOM file to check and compare with what I have.

[Gossypium]

DOB7

In an earlier message you said that Eliza JAGO did not appear to have been baptised in Devon, however the censuses of 1841, 1851, 1861 all show that she was born in Devon, the 1851 and 1861 censuses show her born in Tavistock.  Her age shown in 1841 and 1861 indicates she was born about 1815.  Please check for her again Tavistock about 1815.

Also can you find a baptism of William GILCHRIST born about 1805 at Devonport?

Thanks

[DOB7]

Actually, what I said was that she was not baptised in Tavistock - I have checked the registers. That doesn't mean she wasn't born there. She may have been baptised in her mother or father's parish, in a non-conformist Church or not at all.
Stoke Damerel registers show the baptism for a William GILCHRIST on 19 Aug 1804, son of Joseph & Ann, said to be born 31 Jul 1804. He was one of 7 children baptised by them between 1802 and 1811.
The parents are still alive in 1851:
32 Cumberland St, Stoke Damerel HO/107/1881 Folio:147 Page: 41
Joseph  GILCHRIST Head Marr 73 Market Toll Collector b. Falmouth, Cornwall
Ann  GILCHRIST Wife Marr 75 b. Falmouth, Cornwall
Eliza  EDWARDS Daur Marr 39   b. Devonport, Devon
   

[Gossypium]

Mary (Polly) Crossman's eldest brother was Robert Croker Crossman who married in Australia:

CROSSMAN, Robert Croker.
Biographical register 1873
Born: 1843
Place: Nerring
Married: 1873 Victoria
Spouse: Snell, Elizabeth Jane
Source: Eaglehawk & district pioneer register.
Author/compiler: O'Donohue, Annette and Hanson, Bev. p./no. 198

Elizabeth Jane Snell (née JAMES) was the widow of John Snell