Tavistock CROSSMAN

[Gossypium]

Hello DOB7

On 12 Aug 1813 John KINSMAN m. Christiana CROSSMAN at Stoke Damerel per IGI Batch M052421.

Do you have any additional details of this marriage?

[DOB7]

No, sorry  I don't have the marriage PRs for Stoke Damerel, just an index. The Devon Record Office can supply details. I do have a couple of baptisms I have transcribed from Stoke Damerel PRs:
25 Jun 1815 John George KINSMAN s/John & Christianna, father a tallow chandler of Dock
4 May 1817 William KINSMAN s/John & Christianna, father a tallow chandler of Dock

[Gossypium]

Thanks.

[APHK]

Nick, you can find John Kinsman & Christiana Crossman here:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kingsman/kinsman/andrewkinsman/indiI0370.html

The tree doesn't yet include John George and William (who presumably died in infancy as his brother William Crossman Kinsman was born a couple of years later, after the family moved to Portsea, Hampshire; subsequently the family ended up in Lambeth).

If anyone has anything else that they can amend/add to this tree, please do let me know. Thanks.

 

[kimbleloss]

This is my first posting therefore please forgive any errors. I have been tracing my family using BDM certificates and census returns, now for Parish records! I have used Family Search but all the results are from "submitted" files which I am aware (through your very helpful forum search) are not totally reliable and need checking, which I would be really grateful for help/direction.

What I know from census/BDM is;
My paternal grandmother was Mary (Polly) CROSSMAN born 25th July 1855 Morwellhan Tavistock Devon.
Her father was Robert CROSSMAN Labourer born circa 1815 Tavistock died 1869 her mother was Eliza JAGOE born circa 1817 Tavistock.
On the 1841 and 1851 census the family were living in Brook Street, Buckland but in 1861 ? Murrel Lane Tavistock St Paul (I would appreciate clarification if possible). The last census entry I found is 1871 for Eliza (widow) occupation Charwoman as head of household at Tavistock St Paul's which I think is Morwelhan.
The only other fact I have is that on the 1851 census Robert CROSSMAN brother John CROSSMAN born 1801 Tavistock was living with the family.

This is where my calculations may be iffy and I need help / conformation. (submitted files)

I looked on family search for parents of two sons Robert (my ggranfather) and John and found a George CROSSMAN 1781-1846 married to Elizabeth 1778-1845 (no surname would love to know).
then George's parents
John CROSSMAN 1744-? married to Joan 1746-?
then John's parents
John CROSSMAN ? and Christian EASTLAKE ?

These names and dates could be very useful but (am I being greedy) are only names.
Sorry for the long message but thought I should give as much information as possible.
On my 2009 wish list is. Are these names correct? How can I find out more i.e. what Parish records can be checked? What more can I find out about these people (not very interesting I suppose but they are my family).

Thank you in advance for any help offered

if you look on my family tree on ancestry you will find some info x

[kimbleloss]

if you look on my ancestry tree you will find some info x

[Hemmum]

Dear All (this post is in two parts)
Part 1
For all those interested in Robert Crossman christened 20 Dec 1813 Tavistock son of George and Elizabeth of Higher Brook Street Tavistock who married Eliza JAGO by banns 27 Nov 1835 at Plymouth St Andrew the vicar was C A J Smith and the Witnesses were Margaret JAGO (Eliza’s mother) and Browen TREGIDON. Eliza was christened 6 May 1817 in Tavistock as KINSMAN base daughter of Margaret KINSMAN of Barley Market Street Tavistock

I have bought as much as DFHS they can provide for the Crossmans. I have had lots of help here on this forum particularly from DOB7. And lastly but at not least, from a really wonderful chap called Alex Mettler who has provided details of the Crossmans buried  in Dolvin Road. The information includes abode details of the deceased plus some other family information but sadly only one memorial inscription (which was for Philip 1783 his wife Sarah 1784 and their daughter Mary Ann born 1834).

 I am not sure how further forward I am since my first post, But am now confident that there were two George and Elizabeth Crossmans of similar aged living in Tavistock (one a Carpenter and on a Labourer.

We know that Roberts parents were George and Elizabeth of Higher Brook Street.

We know that on the 1841 census George (born 1779 occup Agri Lab) and Elizabeth (born 1778) were living next door to Robert (Agi Lab) and his wife Eliza in Brook Street Tavistock. (there is also a family of Briants living between them who I have been unable to link)

We know that on the 1851 census Roberts brother John born 1801 (Agri Lab) was with Robert and Eliza in Brook Str Tavistock sub registration dist is Buckland

Neither George born 1779 Agir Lab or Elizabeth born 1779 are on the 1851 census.

I have a death certificate for Elizabeth Crossman who died 9 Aug 1845 aged 67 (born1778) she was the wife of George Crossman Labourer who was present at the death at Back Street Tavistock. The burial was in the St Eustachius Register she was buried 12 Aug 1845 in Dolvin Road and her abode was L Back Street. This I believe is our Elizabeth.

I have a death certificate for George Crossman who died 2 Jun 1846 aged 66 (born 1780) his occupation was Labourer and his abode was Lower Back Street Tavistock. George Crossman of Back Street (were was that?) was present at the death (this causes a mystery as I am not sure that George has a son George (see later!) and that Robert or John did not sign – or at least make a mark!) The burial record for George is from St Eustachius Register and that he was buried at Dolvin Road 4 Jun 1846 his abode was L Back Street.

Who were George and Elizabeth? I have found two possible marriages.
George CROSSMAN married Elizabeth FORD 4 May 1799 Tavistock DFHS. I have their marriage certificate it reads” The Year 1799 page 67 entry 1102. George Crossman Carpenter of this Parish and Elizabeth Frod Spinster of this Parish Mmarried in this church by Banns this 4 May 1799. By me (?Chr Fry vicar of Bickleigh). Then follows the mark of George Crossman and Elizabeth Ford. The witnesses were Rixchard Parford (? Born 1767 in 1841 he was a Blacksmith living Ford Str Tavistock wife is Mary?) and Richard Bickle (I do not know who he ws but the Bickels pop up all the time ). Incidenally the next marriage is Richard Cudlip to Grace Walters. Then follows the mark of George Crossman and Elizabeth Ford. The witnesses were Richard Parford (? Born 1767 in 1841 he was a Blacksmith living Ford Str Tavistock wife is Mary?) and Richard Bickle (I do not know who he ws but the Bickels pop up all the time ). This confirms this George was a carpenter.

George CROSSMAN married Elizabeth JAGO 21 Sep 1803 Kelly DFHS. Devon Records Office said ‘The register states that George Crossman and Elizabeth Jago were both sojourners in the parish. They were married by banns and both made their marks. Witnesses, who signed, were William Rundle and Peter Drown. William Rundle witnessed most of the weddings at this time so must have been the parish clerk or churchwarden. Peter Drown was a blacksmith in Kelly who travelled to other parishes but I cannot find any link to the Crossman or Jago family.

[Hemmum]

Part 2
We know our Elizabeth was born 1778. I searched the IGI for a candidate and found a Elizabeth Jago christened 25 1778, her parents were Robert Jago and Mary Hender (they married 3 Dec 1776 Maker). This has been confirmed by OPC for Maker. The record C052871 also shows christenings in Maker Cornwall for siblings Robert Jago 1779, John Jago 1782, Ann Jago 1782, Mary Jago 1782, William Hender Jago 1790, Thomas Jago 1792. There is no death for an Elizaabeth Jago until 1833. All this has been confirmed with the Maker OPC.

Of interest is that  George and Elizabeth’s last son was Robert born 1813 in Tavistock (our Robert) who Robert married Eliza Jago (base born daughter of Margaret Kinsman). I also think that although John was possibly born 1801 Whitchurch (see later) he was not christened until 1804 with his sister Joan until after the wedding in 1803.

According to the Family Search IGI Film 448044 ref 98387 the children of George Crossman christened 16 Jan 1776 and Elizabeth Ford birth 1774 burial 7 Sep 1811 Tavistock were;
1. Elizabeth Crossman christened 20 Feb 1802
2. George Crossman christened 19 Apr 1806 (was this the George present at Georges death in 1845 but if there are two Georges he was not his son?)
3. William Crossman christened 23 Sep 1806

According to Family Search Batch Number 7431232 Source 0935236 the children of George Crossman and Elizabeth (??) were;
1. John Crossman christened 19 Feb 1804 Tavistock (is this John born1801 who was with his brother Robert on 1851census? If he was the son of Elizabeth Jago then he was born before his parents married?)
2. Joan Crossman christened 19 Feb 1804 Tavistock
3. William Crossman christened 17 Aug 1808  Tavistock died 19 Feb 1812
4. Elizabeth Crossman christened 18 Aug 1810 Tavistock
5. William Crossman christened 14 Oct 1812 Tavistock
6. Robert Crossman christened 20 Dec 1815 Tavistock confirmed by DFHS CD son of George and Elizabeth Crossman of Higher Brook Str Tavistock (unfortunately the records start 1813 so I have been unable to confirm the others)

The children above have been combined as one family the dates would fit the marriage but if the above is correct then Elizabeth Crossman nee Ford died 1811 before the birth of William and Robert.
There are death and burial records for a second George and Elizabeth Crossman.

Elizabeth CROSSMAN from St Eustachius Register was buried (in the churchyard) 7 Sep 1811 aged 37 (born 1774) she was the wife of George.

George CROSSMAN from St Eustachius Register was buried 24 Jun 1840 aged 64 (born 1776) his abode was Exeter Street. (see later re Mary in same Road). I have a death certificate for George CROSSMAN who died 22 Jun 1840 aged 65 (born 1775) his occupation was Carpenter, Philip Crossman of Two Bridges Tavistock was in attendance. (I have looked at the census and I believe Philip was born 1875 and also a Carpenter he died 1868 his parents were William Crossman and Ann Rubby and was ‘this’ Georges brother but this is just my theory can anyone comment?)

Regarding the address of Exeter Street there is a burial entry in the St Eustachius Register for Mary CROSSMAN buried (assume churchyard) 30 Jun 1842 aged 72 (born 1770). As Elizabeth died aged 37 in 1811 I wonder if Mary was a second wife.

I have looked for the siblings of Robert without success. The only other possible glint of light is John born 1801 Whitchurch who was with Robert in 1851. On the 1841 census he was an Agri Lab but was head with apprentices Harvey, Maunder, Middleton and Mitchell living in Whitchurch where he says he was born on one census? By 1861 he was married to Mary born 1805 South Molton and lived at 62 Bannerwell Street Tavistock, were he was living when he was buried 26 Nov 1872 in Dolvin Road. His widow Mary was still living there when she was buried 4 Nov 1883. I can see no children and have been unable to find a suitable marriage which is a real shame.(Can anybody Help!!)  If you look at the census beware of John Crossman born 1805 Dartmouth (his father was Henry born 1771) this John married Mary Ann ?Barnett but they both lived at 32 Bannerwell!!

I understand that this is a very long post and hope it makes sense and that you are still with me!
I really have exhausted everything I can think of doing and don’t think I can confidently progress any further. Any suggestions? I don’t think I can go any further,

[wealdtotamar]

I've just registered on RootsChat and having read all the links since January I think I'm coming in a bit late on all the work everyone's done.  All the info regarding Robert Crossman (born Tavistock 1815) and his family is fascinating and will be filling alot of gaps for me.  His son John (born Tavistock 1845 according to 1851/61/71 census records) is my great grandfather.  I'm interested to know if anyone has found any record of his baptism or even a birth certificate.  Unless I've missed something I can't find any baptism record (having trawled through microfiche at Devon Records Office in Exeter).  There is one lead on the BMD index which suggests a John Crossman born in South Molton in 1845, but I'm wary of this and haven't yet investigated further. Any help, or suggestions gratefully received.  I was interested to see that Hemmum's paternal grandmother was Mary (Polly) Crossman, born Morwellham, 1855.  She was the younger sister of my great grandmother Eliza Crossman (born Tavistock 1850) who later married William Henry Lang, one of whose daughters (Mary (Polly) Lang) married one of John's sons James Eddy Crossman (born Calstock 16th August 1869) in Gibraltar Cathedral on 4th Sept. 1908 - these are my grandparents.  I'm very interested in the 'Spanish connection' and I was very interested to read from Cotton Historian that John was buried in the English Cemetery in Tharsis, Huelva in 1918. This has helped put a big piece of jigsaw in place. I have a little bit of information including a copy of James and Polly's marriage certificate should this interest anyone.  I'm also interested in any information regarding James's brother William John (born Calstock 7th April 1867, Calstock) and Frederick Robert (born Calstock 4th May 1871) I'm assuming they all trooped off to Huelva in the early-mid 1870s when the fortunes of some of the mines at Okeltor, Calstock went into decline.  Sorry this is long and rambling but any information will be gratefully received