Author Topic: lurgan research  (Read 5349 times)

Offline CindyWise

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lurgan research
« on: Thursday 18 December 08 00:16 GMT (UK) »
Is there anyone who can look up some information from parish records in either Lurgan Presbyterian or Shankill Parish church?

thanks Cindy

Offline KatC

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Re: lurgan research
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 18 December 08 13:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,

I can do some.  The Shankill parish church records are  for only about 1821-1830ish, so you will have to rely on other people. The Lurgan First Presbyterian records skip dates 1775 to about 1805 and don't seem to have all the records for some years after that.   I have nothing on the other Lurgan churches.

Let me know names and approximate dates and I will see what I can find.  The early records don't contain all the information you hope for, typically.  Child's name, bapt date, and father's name may be it. 

Offline CindyWise

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Re: lurgan research
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 18 December 08 19:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Kat
That would be so generous.
I am trying to unravel a joint mystery with another researcher. I hope church records may be of some help.
A James Orr married Margaret Geddes Nov 6 1857 in Moira Co Down. James father was a James Orr as well, wife unknown at this point. James and Margaret had 9 children among whom were:
James b about 1858 presumed in Lurgan.
David Henry married to Dorothy Bell. David was borh in Lurgan and was the youngest of the family.
Records have a James Orr married to an Elizabeth Cranston Nov 27 1879 in the Parish Church in Lurgan. I think this may have been the Presbyterian church as in the 1901 census he lists himself as Presbyterian.
In the 1901 census for Lurgan James and Elizabeth are living in Lurgan and his father James is living with him. His brother (?) David is living nearby with his family.
What I am trying to determine is if the father of David and the father of James is the same man. I know that David Henry's mother was named Margaret Geddes. I do not know if the mother of James (married to Elizabeth) is Margaret Geddes as well. There were many Orr families in Lurgan at the same time and a great number were named the same! So it gets confusing.
We don't have a birthdate for the James married to Elizabeth or parent names other than the father. That shows up on his marriage certificate. What I am trying to do is link David Henry Orr and James Orr married to Elizabeth to see if they were brothers or unrelated. The link is that both had a father named James Orr.
David Henry Orr is COI and I am pretty sure was a member of the Shankill Parish Church. I am hoping that church records from there might help with a birth record or baptism record for James married to Elizabeth that would list his mother and father. That would tell me if he and David Henry were siblings.

If the record is not at Shankill Parish church then perhaps the Lurgan Presbyterian would have that record. Those are the two churches that show up in records.

I hope this is not too tangled.
I am very appreciative and hope you might have some idea of how to untangle this mystery. The key is who were the parents of the James Orr married to Elizabeth Cranston?

All the best
Cindy

Offline KatC

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Orr
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 18 December 08 22:48 GMT (UK) »
The last Orr entry I see in the First Lurgan records is Margaret Geddes and James Orr , a weaver, having an unnamed child in 1863.  There are no birth records of Orrs after that.  Thomas and David Henry are born previously.  So the couple was using a different church when daughter Annie was born or Annie (said to be age 28 in 1901) is the above child.

David Henry Orr, a weaver, was born in 1860, but  he claims to have been born in 1870 in the census, if I read it correctly.  I expect all the 1901 census birthdates are off.


James Orr in the 1901 census claims to have been born in 1840 and wife Elizabeth in 1850.  Their children, Elizabeth 19 and James 17, suggest that this is your Elizabeth Cranston family as they have been married just over 21 years. 

However, this James is a shoemaker and this matches with James  Orr and Elizabeth Black who had John in 1832 and Ellen in 1851. 

Since I can see only First Lurgan Presby baptisms, I would assume that other churches were used to baptize unknown children.  Certainly Elizabeth Black did not give birth to Elizabeth and James in the 1880's, so it is likely that census shoemaker James 60 has wife Elizabeth Cranston 50.  Also that shoemaker James likely had a son James who was also a shoemaker.  This is not proof, though. Nevertheless, note that  James Orr shoemaker had dau Isabella b. abt 1836 who married Joseph Adams in 1852.  She was not listed on the baptism listing.

Margaret Geddes's husband was a weaver and son David Henry is also a weaver.  That fits well. However, you might see who gave birth to Margaret 19, granddaughter to James and Margaret and living with them in 1901.  You could ask for a look up on her parents. 

There are a scattering of Orrs in the area with one whose family apparently moved from Armagh to Sligo and back again.  You may not be able to find what you want in local churches.

I can't easily find marriages after 1865, but I checked the dates you gave me.  There were no Orr marriages within a year of that time.


Offline CindyWise

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Re: lurgan research
« Reply #4 on: Friday 19 December 08 09:42 GMT (UK) »
hank you for your prompt reply!
There were two David Henry's, one born in 1860 who died young and one in 1870 who is the one in the 1901 census.
The only other piece of information I have is that James Orr married to Margaret Geddes was born in Ballymagin. That comes from the marriage record.
Thanks for your help.
Cindy

Offline KatC

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Re: lurgan research
« Reply #5 on: Friday 19 December 08 15:10 GMT (UK) »
So possibly this is the father of James in Ballymagin in 1901?

6.  James Orr Presby  80  damask weaver not married  Sarah  sister 70  James Gardiner  no relationship given  15  agric laborer  Rebecca Watters  69 sister  not married

Not married sometimes means the spouse has died. 

Anyway, one of the witnesses at Isabelle Orr's wedding had McCleary  surname I was following, but I can't tell which James was the witness.  If you find more on the Magheralin area, I would be interested in the connections.

Offline maryderry

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Re: lurgan research
« Reply #6 on: Friday 19 December 08 16:51 GMT (UK) »


Record Type Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage 6 Nov 1857
Groom Name james ORR
Bride Name margaret GEDDIS
Church Moira Presbyterian Church
Parish Moira
Civil District Lurgan
County Down

two more births, JANE ELIZA 27-8-1864. ANNE 31-1-1867.


                                    regards mary. :)
doolin?
quigley- hasson. stewart. lynch. doherty gallagher-derry
mclaughlin-  brennan .moville co. donegal
mctaggart
monaghan

Offline CindyWise

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Re: lurgan research
« Reply #7 on: Friday 19 December 08 18:58 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the quick reply. I did not know of the James Orr damask weaver. That seems a better fit than a shoemaker for my James. Did that come from the 1901 census?
I don't have any other information other than that James II married to Margaret Geddes had a father named James and that he listed his home as Ballmagin. So that seems to be a possibility that this is his father James. I am not sure about the other family.
I think the only way this will be unraveled is a trip to Lurgan and a visit to the individual churches. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a great fare this winter sometime!
I appreciate all the help especially at this time of year. I hope you all have a wonderful holiday.


Cindy

Offline Watson David

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Re: lurgan research
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 10 May 09 07:52 BST (UK) »
I am trying to locate my ggg grandfather James Robinson weaver b.abt 1799 married Hannah surname unknown. Had at least 2 children Watson b.1830 and Margaret b.1834 in Lylo, Seagoe parish. I believe that James and Hannah may have been Presbyterian and may have married in Lurgan or Portadown Presbyterian churchs. Has anyone any ideas on how I can proceed?

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