Author Topic: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.  (Read 45735 times)

Offline cathayb

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #126 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:15 GMT (UK) »
yes janan they are to do with us but not in this part of the family i hope not anyway or it will get even more comlicated.cinderella does end up marrying someone in this lot but i think we should forget her for now.
i dont have deathe cert but i have photo of grave and dates of internemt.will look them out and post in a minute.
birchs taylors penfold orchard hughes all romany gypsies in the west country

Offline cathayb

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #127 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:19 GMT (UK) »
can post photo sorry.will post ranscription rom graveyard in a min
birchs taylors penfold orchard hughes all romany gypsies in the west country

Offline cathayb

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #128 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:23 GMT (UK) »
cant post photo sorry.will post ranscription rom graveyard in a min
The Grave is in Acton Cemetery
on Park Royal Road

The grave stone reads as follows

In loving memory
          of
Atherlia Taylor
who died 25th June 1902
aged 64 years
also of my dear Wife
Emily Taylor
who passed away
2nd november 1953
aged 72 years
also of Jabez Taylor
Husband of the above
who passed away
11th Feb 1965
aged 86 years  


i am copying and pasting this from the other search over in travellers in the general room.as we are all there looking aswell until a few days ago i dont think anyone will mind as we all want the truth of them!
birchs taylors penfold orchard hughes all romany gypsies in the west country

Offline cathayb

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #129 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:25 GMT (UK) »
Atherlias Death Cert States
Died at 46 Osbourne Road, Acton
Widow of Joshua Taylor
Selina Hearn, Daughter, present at death, of 18 May place Notting Hill

Selinas Marridge Cert, 1890 Maiden name Taylor, Father Joshua
Married in Fullam
Whitness Gentila Taylor and John Goodsell

1891 Census for Selina Hearn
149 Stanns Road London
With Husband Christopher as Head
Isobel Smith aged 13 Single,  Sister in law
( with makes Isobel Selinas Sister)

So there is a Smith connection
Was she married Twice, or more
Whats the chance of being born a Taylor, and meeting someone
with the same surname, I surpose it must happen
I have Jabez with 2 Sisters, Selina and Isobel
Still no Birth Certs can be found

And thats where I am at the moment
any info would be much Help
Thanks to all that have Posted and Helped me get this far
birchs taylors penfold orchard hughes all romany gypsies in the west country


Offline cathayb

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #130 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:28 GMT (UK) »
we have gone on from this last post but i put it in so you can see where the hearns come in.we now know for sure athliia was a taylor,she married first joshua cooper and then sam smith.there are kids from both marriages!but they interchanged the names like tomorrow as you are seeing!!!!!
birchs taylors penfold orchard hughes all romany gypsies in the west country

Offline cathayb

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #131 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:32 GMT (UK) »
personally but not proved in anyway as far as i know i think jabez was a smith son of not a taylor or a cooper.i think he took his mothers maiden name over the family feud that occurred.!!!!?
birchs taylors penfold orchard hughes all romany gypsies in the west country

Offline smileyface471686

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #132 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:39 GMT (UK) »
i will go and check my certs.!!if only i had put them in alphbetical order!!!!no i am not certain at all but somewhee theres a cencus with her with him.i will golook to see ifi got it.i know night owl has some i dont know if shes got that one.okay i will go route around see what i can find out.

Charles Godfrey Leland who called Matty cooper his 'professor' as Matty taught him Romany.... Well Charles states in his book The Gypsies:_
Sam Smith was always known on the roads as Fighting Sam.  Years have
passed, and when I have asked after him I have always heard that he was
either in prison or had just been let out.  Once it happened that, during
a fight with a Gorgio, the Gorgio's watch disappeared, and Sam was
arrested under suspicion of having got up the fight in order that the
watch might disappear.  All of his friends declared his innocence.  The
next trouble was for _chorin a gry_, or stealing a horse, and so was the
next, and so on.  As horse-stealing is not a crime, but only "rough
gambling," on the roads, nobody defended him on these counts.  He was, so
far as this went, only a sporting character.  When his wife died he
married Athalia, the widow of Joshua Cooper, a gypsy
,of whom I shall
speak anon.  I always liked Sam.  Among the travelers, he was always
spoken of as genteel, owing to the fact, that whatever the state of his
wardrobe might be, he always wore about his neck an immaculate white
woolen scarf, and on _jours de fete_, such as horse-races, sported a
_boro stardi_, or chimney-pot hat.  O my friend, Colonel Dash, of the
club!  Change but the name, this fable is of thee!

"There's to be a _walgoro_, _kaliko i sala_--a fair to-morrow morning, at
Cobham," said Sam, as he departed.

"All right.  We'll be there."

As we approached the cock-shy, where sticks were cast at cocoa-nuts, a
young gypsy _chai_, whom I learned to know in after-days as Athalia
Cooper, asked me to buy some sticks.  A penny a throw, all the cocoa-nuts
I could hit to be my own.  I declined; she became urgent, jolly, riotous,
insistive.  I endured it well, for I held the winning cards.  _Qui minus
propere_, _minus prospere_.  And then, as her voice rose _crescendo_ into
a bawl, so that all the Romanys around laughed aloud to see the green
Gorgio so chaffed and bothered, I bent me low, and whispered softly in
her ear a single monosyllable.

Why are all those sticks dropped so suddenly?  Why does Athalia in a
second become sober, and stand up staring at me, all her chaff and
urgency forgotten.  Quite polite and earnest now.  But there is joy
behind in her heart.  This _is_ a game, a jolly game, and no mistake.
And uplifting her voice again, as the voice of one who findeth an
exceeding great treasure even in the wilderness, she cried aloud,--"_It's
a Romany rye_!"

The spiciest and saltest and rosiest of Sir Patrick's own stories, told
after dinner over his own old port to a special conventicle of clergymen
about town, was never received with such a roar of delight as that cry of
Athalia's was by the Romany clan.  Up went three sheers at the find;
further afield went the shout proclaiming the discovery of an
aristocratic stranger of their race, a _rye_, who was to them as
wheat,--a gypsy gentleman.  Neglecting business, they threw down their
sticks, and left their cocoanuts to grin in solitude; the _dyes_ turned
aside from fortune-telling to see what strange fortune had sent such a
visitor.  In ten minutes Sir Patrick and I were surrounded by such a
circle of sudden admirers and vehement applauders, as it seldom happens
to any mortal to acquire--out of Ireland--at such exceedingly short
notice and on such easy terms.

They were not particular as to what sort of a gypsy I was, or where I
came from, or any nonsense of that sort, you know.  It was about
_cerevisia vincit omnia_, or the beery time of day with them, and they
cared not for anything.  I was extremely welcome; in short, there was
poetry in me.  I had come down on them by a way that was dark and a trick
that was vain, in the path of mystery, and dropped on Athalia and picked
her up.  It was gypsily done and very creditable to me, and even Sir
Patrick was regarded as one to be honored as an accomplice.  It is a
charming novelty in every life to have the better class of one's own kind
come into it, and nobody feels so keenly as a jolly Romany that _jucundum
nihil est nisi quod ref icit varietas_--naught pleases us without
variety.

Then and there I drew to me the first threads of what became in
after-days a strange and varied skein of humanity.  There was the Thames
upon a holiday.  Now I look back to it, I ask, _Ubi sunt_?  (Where are
they all?)  Joshua Cooper, as good and earnest a Rom as ever lived, in
his grave, with more than one of those who made my acquaintance by
hurrahing for me.  Some in America, some wandering wide.  Yet there by
Weybridge still the Thames runs on.

As Charles knew these Coopers extremely well, better than any other, i really wouldnt doubt his words


Offline smileyface471686

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #133 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:45 GMT (UK) »
By the way Cathay, the Smiths with Matty in 1881 are his daughter in law Patience Cooper nee Smith (wife of his son Samuel and my gt grandparents) family. George and Mary Ann Smith are Patiences parents, Caleb is Georges half brother, and John Smith is Georges son. They dont tie in with Sam Smiths family. George etc, are Brighton Smiths and travelled around Sussex, Kent and Surrey, but mainly stayed in houses in Brighton and the surrounds.

Offline deb usa

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Re: CathayB's 3rd Scavenger Hunt..Everyone Welcome To Join In.
« Reply #134 on: Wednesday 10 December 08 16:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi Smileyface :)

Thanks for that ..It gave me goosebumps .

When was the book published/written?

deb
Travellers = Penfold, Orchard, James
Devon = Middleton,  Waterfield, Adams, Clark/e, Gould
Cornwall = Palmer, Carnarton, Slack/Smith. Morris/h
Wales, New Quay = James, Evans


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