Do you recognise this house? The Limes Porthill

[staffsuk]

Hi all

Warning - this is a long reply 

I'm just glad some people can remember the thread. I actually saw the pictures Ebba posted on Flickr a while back - but couldn't think where the house could have been. It was when I was looking for something else recently I came across the pictures again - and the 'wall' picture suddenly sparked a idea of where I thought it could be - just a few hundred yards from where I live.

I'll post what I posted on Flickr here - somewhat edited as I went for a cycle to the location today to take some pictures:


I'm fairly sure I know where this is! I think this is the carriage entrance to a large house which was called 'The Limes'. It was situated on First Avenue in Porthill - not far from where I live. The house was empty and derelict for some time and eventually demolished 30 or so years ago. The land was developed into a small housing estate suitably called 'The Limes'. There were a few large houses like this in the area - and although most have been demolished - some remnants remain by way of surviving boundary walls and entrance piers / caps.

I had a hunch about this photo - given the size of house and the long straight road - and knowing that the walls & piers had survived the development I was thinking of. So I had a look on Google Maps (quicker than walking there!). This confirmed my thoughts so I cycled along this morning to take some pictures.

OK - Here is the original picture of the road & entrance posted by Ebba


Here is the picture I took this morning


A front view


A zoom into the original photo


A closer view of the wall & pier today


If you look at the wall abutting the left pier - you will see it looks to be a match - six oblong stones high & topped with coping stones. The wall to the right pier today is a more modern contemporary affair - possible erected in the 50s / 60s. Notice also the lower two stone courses in the original photo show slightly thicker stones than the upper four courses. This ties with how the wall looks today - albeit the lowest course is obscured given the pavement height has been raised over the years.

The height of the pier base is also a match - finishing roughly at the top of the second row of wall stones.

Check out the carved rebate on the inner face of the piers - it again looks like a match! Looking again at the zoomed original photo - look at the vertical details inside the carved area - I suspect these were the gates & supports just visible - and you can see the gate supports on the piers today at the same height inline with the coping stones.

The pier caps look like a match too - albeit the spheres are no longer there. However there are metal posts which would have supported these as can be seen here


The road looks to be First Avenue to me - and in the original photo you can make out Porthill Bank in the distance. You can also see the main entrance to 'The Limes' further along - this exists today and forms the main entrance to the housing estate.


I had a word with the guy clearing his drive. He said he had been shown some pictures of the house some years back. I showed him the picture Ebba posted of the house and he immediately said 'yes that's the one!'

Note also in the original photo - the road ends and becomes a path through grass. This would be correct as the road was only continued when further houses were built in the 30's / 40's. Take a look at some old maps on http://www.old-maps.co.uk using the postcode ST5 8QX and the address '12 The Limes' to see how the house & gardens were laid out - and how the estate developed over the years (1:500 & 1:2500 maps).

The maps show the plan of the house - and a wing to the right which was added later. RichardK made some very interesting observations in the original thread about the planform of the house - the orientation of the gardens and the added wing all of which tie in looking at the maps over the years.

I'm almost certain our local library and planning department will have pictures of 'The Limes' somewhere in their archives. I can check if you like.

Hope you found this interesting - and it would be great if Ebba were to find this thread again

[Ruskie]

Welcome to rootschat StaffsUK.
I too remember these threads. We all love trying to solve these mysterries. I am convinced you have identified the correct location of the building - great detective work. 

It's slightly sad to think about these grand old buildings of the past - now gone.  Just a couple of gate posts remain to remind us ...

[staffsuk]

Thanks for the welcomes - and yes I do like a bit of detective work 

Would it be allowed to post some screen grabs of Maps from old-maps.co.uk? They have the copyright notice embedded in them. I just wanted to add some weight to my findings with the planform of the house on the maps in relation to the photo of the front elevation 

[sarah]

Hi Staffs,

Yes some great sleuthing

The images would be copyright of old maps so you would not be able to post them, but a link would be great

Ebba's emails are working fine, oh she is going to be so pleased!

Sarah

[staffsuk]

Hi Sarah

I do hope Ebba receives the messages!

I couldn't post links direct from old-maps.co.uk

Now go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk

In the search field type ST5 8QX - then click on '12 The Limes' in the results field. Now click on the 1879 town plan map on the right - scale 1:500 - it's the map at the top of the results list. You will have to wait a short time whilst the image resolves properly. You can then click on the image to zoom into the map. In this first map you will see the plan of the house with the entrance as per the photo above - also too the left side wing set back - and the projecting bay window on the photo to the right side elevation - again this shown on the plan.

So - Below is a photo of the front elevation of the house posted by Ebba

Also note the buildings to the left of the photo which are marked on the map. Even more convincing - in the photo ahead of the main entrance on the lawn look at the circular flower bed & urn to the left of the entrance - and the square flower bed & urn in the foreground - and the other flower bed just showing on the left side of the photo - all marked on the map!

Pictured below also is  the projecting bay window - and some steps leading down to another part of the garden - again marked on the first map


Now click on the 1899 Pre-WWII 1:1250 map. Again wait a while for the image to resolve and then click again to zoom in. You will see here the right wing which was added later - and pictured in the photo. This later addition was picked up by RichardK.

[janan]

Fabulous staffsuk, brilliant detective work

I love these "where is it?" threads and it is so nice to see one solved after so long. I do hope Ebba pops back to see.

Jan

[linmey]

This is brilliant, I so often think about this thread. It has been Rootschat at its best. Great detective work.

XX

[Jool]

Well done Staffsuk, brilliant work!  In 1861 The Limes was home to Enoch Wedgewood and family, Earthenware manufacturer  . RG9 1921 Fol 3 Pg 4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Wedgwood

Jool

[Jool]

Sydney Malkin, J.P., lived at The Limes from around 1910

http://www.thepotteries.org/federation/052_malkin.htm